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08-04-2010, 04:59 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Look at TD Jake's church.
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Exactly. And "churches" aside, many of us do not receive daily directives from a hierarchy of any kind.
Just sayin...
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-04-2010, 05:02 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
Exactly. And "churches" aside, many of us do not receive daily directives from a hierarchy of any kind.
Just sayin...
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Is TD Jakes really "OP?"
Or does TD have OP background?
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08-04-2010, 05:05 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
Is TD Jakes really "OP?"
Or does TD have OP background?
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He baptises in Jesus Name and does not refer to God as "three persons". That's good enough for me. The dress code, no matter how important, is a secondary issue IMHO.
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-04-2010, 05:08 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
He baptises in Jesus Name and does not refer to God as "three persons". That's good enough for me. The dress code, no matter how important, is a secondary issue IMHO.
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TD doesn't recognize baptism as essential for salvation, but rather as part of salvation (response to, not for). He baptizes in the same formula as OP's but sees baptism entirely different.
His attitude toward the godhead is not unlike many on here, who don't see it as a salvific issue, nor one that should cause disfellowship.
That's far from "OP."
He doesn't believe tongues are exclusive to the Spirit nor are essential for salvation.
He doesn't preach OP holiness standards.
Anything else that qualifies him?
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08-04-2010, 05:29 PM
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mary
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Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Midwest
Posts: 3,002
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
TD doesn't recognize baptism as essential for salvation, but rather as part of salvation (response to, not for). He baptizes in the same formula as OP's but sees baptism entirely different.
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OP has nothing to do with whether baptism is in response to or essential for salvation. There are a variety of OP groups, and a variety of views on this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
He doesn't preach OP holiness standards.
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Holiness standards are not an OP thing. They are inherent in several Holiness Pentecostal circles, but have nothing to do with whether a person is oneness or not.
I'm not as familiar with various views on the other issues you raise. I had considered myself OP because I believed in baptism in Jesus' name, not because I refused to fellowship Trinitarians. And to my knowledge most Pentecostals-whether Oneness or Trinity-believe in speaking in tongues, but I'm not sure if all consider tongues essential for salvation.
__________________
What we make of the Bible will never be as great a thing as what the Bible will - if we let it - make of us.~Rich Mullins
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.~Galileo Galilei
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08-04-2010, 05:31 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: DC Metro area
Posts: 1,569
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary
OP has nothing to do with whether baptism is in response to or essential for salvation. There are a variety of OP groups, and a variety of views on this.
Holiness standards are not an OP thing. They are inherent in several Holiness Pentecostal circles, but have nothing to do with whether a person is oneness or not.
I'm not as familiar with various views on the other issues you raise. I had considered myself OP because I believed in baptism in Jesus' name, not because I refused to fellowship Trinitarians. And to my knowledge most Pentecostals-whether Oneness or Trinity-believe in speaking in tongues, but I'm not sure if all consider tongues essential for salvation.
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 (2 thumbs up MM!)
__________________
Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
"You will be hated for my sake-Just remember that it should be for MY sake and not YOURS-
Do NOT act in such a way as to be offensive, and then blame it on me"
Love, God
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08-04-2010, 05:33 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by missourimary
OP has nothing to do with whether baptism is in response to or essential for salvation. There are a variety of OP groups, and a variety of views on this.
Holiness standards are not an OP thing. They are inherent in several Holiness Pentecostal circles, but have nothing to do with whether a person is oneness or not.
I'm not as familiar with various views on the other issues you raise. I had considered myself OP because I believed in baptism in Jesus' name, not because I refused to fellowship Trinitarians. And to my knowledge most Pentecostals-whether Oneness or Trinity-believe in speaking in tongues, but I'm not sure if all consider tongues essential for salvation.
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Well I guess our definitions of OP vary. I also see OP as more broad than Oneness churches. Jentezen Franklin came from an OP background, and it was more along the lines of rigid rules. You are correct what you said about Pentecostals and tongues. As far as baptism, my point was that TD may use the formula (word has it he uses the mt 28:19 language and adds "which is Jesus") but he is certainly not dogmatic about it as OP's are.
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08-04-2010, 05:56 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
Well I guess our definitions of OP vary. I also see OP as more broad than Oneness churches. Jentezen Franklin came from an OP background, and it was more along the lines of rigid rules. You are correct what you said about Pentecostals and tongues. As far as baptism, my point was that TD may use the formula (word has it he uses the mt 28:19 language and adds "which is Jesus") but he is certainly not dogmatic about it as OP's are.
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So here is a case in point...
I am OP (attend a UPC) and I would disagree with Jakes - if he really does say "Which is Jesus".
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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08-04-2010, 06:53 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4,280
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie
So here is a case in point...
I am OP (attend a UPC) and I would disagree with Jakes - if he really does say "Which is Jesus".
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Is Jakes still "OP" though?
And is he "OP" if he says "in the name of the Lord Jesus" but accepts baptisms in various other ways?
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08-04-2010, 07:29 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: The Village
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socialite
Is Jakes still "OP" though?
And is he "OP" if he says "in the name of the Lord Jesus" but accepts baptisms in various other ways?
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I think so. It's not so important that one calls himself OP/Apostolic etc...
And yes, I also think our early PCI minded founders of the UPC were still OP, even if they expected to see their Trinitarian brethren in heaven one day!
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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