Read This Very Interesting about Tithing?

[Michael]

[A.W. Bowman]

As an aside, neither Jesus nor any of his disciple are recorded as having ever paid or received tithes - at any time. Even the payment of the 'required' temple tax was not highly though of by Jesus, but so as not to cause problems, he sent Peter down to the sea to fetch the necessary money. See Matthew 17:24-27.

[SRM]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So why do some people preach it as a blessings or cursings / heaven or hell issue?

Surely there has to be Bible to back this logic up. It can't be all "extra-biblical".

Even my Pastor preaches about the necessity of tithing-- the Bible commands, the blessings that flow from obedience and the cursings that come from disobedience.

Maybe it is out of fear from not being fed,after all some Pastors do not hold down a 9 to 5 like most saints do.. please spare me the 24/7 talk I realize the burden they must have for the congregation but it could be some truth in that. Paul did speak on the fact that a preacher can be and should be supported but what a fine example of Paul to leave that He carried all that weight and was over many churches yet still had a trade to fall on..

It is also preached as a fire and brimstone message also from tradition..and it is taken out of context from Malachi..

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So why do some people preach it as a blessings or cursings / heaven or hell issue?

Surely there has to be Bible to back this logic up. It can't be all "extra-biblical".

Even my Pastor preaches about the necessity of tithing-- the Bible commands, the blessings that flow from obedience and the cursings that come from disobedience.

Tithing is a teaching/doctrine/practice we have carried over from the Roman Catholic Church.

Early Christians were at first Jewish. If they were farmers or had livestock they would continue tithing to the Levites at the Temple until the Temple was destroyed in AD 70. If they were tradesmen or fishermen they would not be tithing. After the destruction of the Temple, the Levitical priesthood and sacrificial system naturally stopped. Tithing of income is a Roman Catholic teaching.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So why do some people preach it as a blessings or cursings / heaven or hell issue?

Surely there has to be Bible to back this logic up. It can't be all "extra-biblical".

Even my Pastor preaches about the necessity of tithing-- the Bible commands, the blessings that flow from obedience and the cursings that come from disobedience.

Well, there are lots of things some preachers preach as heaven or hell issues that are not scriptural. Look at the "holiness standards" that are a large part of the preaching and teaching of some ministers.

[corvet786c]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

As an aside, neither Jesus nor any of his disciple are recorded as having ever paid or received tithes - at any time. Even the payment of the 'required' temple tax was not highly though of by Jesus, but so as not to cause problems, he sent Peter down to the sea to fetch the necessary money. See Matthew 17:24-27.

Wow very good points. I wish this was preached in our churches. Where is the faith of the church that God will bless them without recieving tithes? I was always taught that I would go to hell for not paying tithes as thiefs dont go to heaven so this topic is very sensitive to me. I am glad that the Lord opened my eyes to the truth which is to give from my heart and not be compelled or forced to give a mandate. Thank You again.

[corvet786c]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

As an aside, neither Jesus nor any of his disciple are recorded as having ever paid or received tithes - at any time. Even the payment of the 'required' temple tax was not highly though of by Jesus, but so as not to cause problems, he sent Peter down to the sea to fetch the necessary money. See Matthew 17:24-27.

To HaShaliach? How do you explain Gen 14 Where abram gave a tithe to melchizadek?

Most Modern Denominations take these verses and use it as eternal purpose for tithing? I know Abram did not tithe on his own possessions? Can you elaborate more on this?

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

Wow very good points. I wish this was preached in our churches. Where is the faith of the church that God will bless them without recieving tithes? I was always taught that I would go to hell for not paying tithes as thiefs dont go to heaven so this topic is very sensitive to me. I am glad that the Lord opened my eyes to the truth which is to give from my heart and not be compelled or forced to give a mandate. Thank You again.

You are welcome, my friend. Money has always been a stumbling block for mankind. It represents power, control, freedom of action, and an 'easy' life.People tend to hold on to their money, except to spend it on their own desires. Jesus taught to be free with your substance (money, clothes, food, etc.), and not to hoard it or spend it just on your personal desires. Rather, to give to the needy, help all who are in need of assistance, in what ever way you are able. But, don't just say, "be blessed" and turn aside from them and their need. The principle of giving/sharing is not taught in most churches because the way it is presented is generally not accepted by the assembly.

Giving, like tithing, is taught as a spiritual requirement, as opposed as to a Spirit induced heart condition. Giving remains a personal attitude that must first be addressed from a spiritual point of view, rather than from a legal position. We get so wrapped up in the legal aspects of the word we miss the grace of it. Study (very carefully) Matthew 5-7. Place the 'principle' of giving within this context rather than in a list of ordinances, and expect to see/experience miracles.

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by corvet786c

To HaShaliach? How do you explain Gen 14 Where abram gave a tithe to melchizadek?

Most Modern Denominations take these verses and use it as eternal purpose for tithing? I know Abram did not tithe on his own possessions? Can you elaborate more on this?

Thank you for submitting a great question.

Yet, let me first address one other pre-law tithing example, Jacob. See Genesis 28:20-22. While often times referred to, it is almost never preached. The reason is easy to discern. First, Jacob did not actually tithe anything, it was a promise – a conditional promise, contingent on God agreeing to and fulfilling a bargain. “I’ll give you, God, 10% of everything you give me in the future, if you will give me these things I want now.” When one does get a dose of Jacob’s tithing, it is pure humanism, a ‘what’s in it for me’ attitude. That is, “you can’t out give God”, the more you give, the more you get. The hand of God becomes a heavenly ATM machine with no withdrawal limits.

These are two things to notice here. First, there is no recorded record of Jacob every fulfilling part of the bargain (tithing). However, it should be safe to assume that he did, considering the rest of Jacob’s life. Second, there are no details concerning how or when he paid his tithes to God. For evidence of a universal ‘giving principle’, there is a noticeable lack of instructions and examples as to how this was to be accomplished.

Jacob’s tithe was a bargaining ploy with God which resulted in a Jacob incurring a legal debt. The paying of a debt has been never considered to the an offering of a ‘gift’. It is an obligation, a payment due, a legal requirement. To attempt to mix the concept of ‘gift giving’ with the obligation of ‘paying debts’ stretches scripture completely out of shape.

Finally, Jacob’s debt was to God, personally, and there was no man inserted between the payment maker and the payment receiver. How Jacob actually made his payment(s) to God remains an open speculation (actual items, methods, frequency, etc.). Even so, there is an implied biblical principle expressed in these verses. If one makes a vow to God, be quick to fulfill it. See Genesis 31, with emphasis on verses 11-14, and Psalms 50 with emphasis on verse 14.

Observation: Until the Mt. Sinai Covenant, it was always the man who set the standards of paying a tribute to God, not God Himself.

Next, a freewill offering of thanksgiving.

[A.W. Bowman]

With Abraham’s tithing the scenario seems to be a little simpler.

Without a lot of specific history to back it up, it seems like the payment of taxes of one’s crops and livestock to the king was required of everyone for the support the local government, military, etc. Was it ten percent, fifty percent, or some set amount for each farm, or something else? I don’t know. Most likely, the annual tax depended on the king need/wants and the abundance of the crops and herds. For this example, let’s take ten percent as a working figure. Regardless –

What we have with Abraham and Melechizedek is another unique set of events.

Given: Abraham was a very wealthy man and really didn’t need any extra wealth (not greedy).

While Abraham moved about the land, there is no record of him ever paying taxes or a tribute to any king, except for one exception, Melechizedek.

The following has been pointed out many times, but it is required once again. Abraham is recorded to have paid tithe only once in his lifetime, and that was to Melechizedek, a king and high priest of God. [Special note: Abraham was not the only man to whom God made Himself known back in those ‘early days’.] Question, was it the accepted practice in those days for Melechizedek to receive tithes from his subjects, and/or those passing through his lands? In the office of high priest, did Melechizedek expect an additional offering of some kind?

The apparent answer to these questions is “No”. Because the only one who tithed was Abraham (and that was his own idea), not any member of his family nor any of those who accompanied him on the rescue of Lot. What Abraham did pay tithes on was the spoils of war – nothing else! Then, what of the remaining 90%? Abraham gave away 10% of something he wasn’t even going to keep! He gave the rest of the spoils to the king of Sodom. See Genesis 14. If this was the initial example of a universal principle of ‘giving’ (paying to God) to God, then Abraham failed to teach it to his descendents – and it was not to be ‘rediscovered’ for over 400 years.

However, we can deduce that there was not a lapse in the ‘giving principle’ of tithing because it never became an issue during the time between Abraham and Mt. Sinai. Rather, it is just the opposite. Study carefully all of Genesis 26, emphasis on verses 4 – 6. Now, draw your own conclusions.

Bottom line: There are only a couple of reasons to refer to these pre-law tithing scriptures, and neither one is very pretty. (1) They are used in developing a doctrine simply because the term tithe(s, ing) is use in a scripture. Context is destroyed in the process. (2) The only way to support/finance a ministry that should be allowed to fail is kept ‘functioning’ through threats/intimidation and induced feelings of guilt (bully pulpit). What we need to remember is that where God has set His seal and blessings, it will endure. Men, however, can subvert any ministry to their own gain (power, money, influence, etc.). In that case, if correction cannot be accomplished, turn it over to Satan and be done with it.

Epilogue.

I visited one congregation where the pastor stood, preached on tithing and proclaimed to the congregation that, “If you would all pay your tithes, I wouldn’t have to work!” Within a year the pastor was gone, the church disbanded and the building sold.

Is there anything wrong with tithing? Of course not, not when tithing is an act of a free will, and not under compulsion, as a legal debt, because of threats, or as a spiritual mandate. If one desires to offer to the work of the church (the body of Christ) any given amount of money, talent, goods or services, then give it freely and with joy. In any case, please keep your biblical giving priorities straight. Don’t give away your family food and rent money, your family medical expense money, etc, to pay for a church building (you can exist and worship without it) or its light bill (wait until next month, if you have to).

I was in one church of about 45 adults, where it took over $8,000 per month to keep its doors open. The majority of the members were well over 60 (average age 65+), on fixed incomes of less than $12,000 per year, and in failing health. Only a few members had a substantial income, and they gave liberally. Even so, the bulk of the monthly church income came from the elderly, the widows, and the infirm. Compared with Matthew 25:32-40, Mark 12:40, and 1 Timothy 5. In many congregations, we have elevated the needs of a building, or even one man, above the needs of the people, even the strangers among us. Does anyone else see a problem with this picture?