Killing Bulls & Goats Was Easier Than Grace

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Yes, all we have to do is believe and ask for it. Luke 11 says so. But many believe, many ask, but many come up empty on tongues.

None of us have come back with eternal life yet either. We still are awaiting heaven. Does that stop us from believing? Jesus said he would come back yet 2000 years have passed by, no return yet.. does that stop us from believing?

I hope our churches get the revelation of God's promises instead of forcing people to seek for tongues when the experience is promised to them if they believe

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The timing of a believer's salvation is predicated upon God's sovereign will, not the will of the believer in question. The timing when one is filled with the Holy Ghost is entirely up to God. All aspects of salvation are predicated upon God's will and grace... not man's effort and desire.

God's word is God's will... right?

Repent and be baptized and after many days... or right away... or whenever I get around to it... you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The timing of a believer's salvation is predicated upon God's sovereign will, not the will of the believer in question. The timing when one is filled with the Holy Ghost is entirely up to God. All aspects of salvation are predicated upon God's will and grace... not man's effort and desire.

Its our society and our makeup that wants to KNOW the point that we are 100% saved. Our solace is in Christ and his promises, not even in experiences although they come with it. His Spirit can bear witness with our spirit that we are the children of God by faith.

Good post Aquila.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

I'm speaking for my cousin who sat at my dinner table and wept as he told me of his 35 year fruitless quest to be filled with the Holy Spirit and when shown the truth of God's Word said, "I just thought I was never good enough."

Yep thats the problem within our churches. Because of the 3 step plan in acts 2:38 and its application thereof, we don't have a doctrine for those waiting to receive their promises and thats the problem. They have every bit of scripture promising their salvation if they continue as we who have received the Holy Ghost do. Its all based on his promises.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The timing of a believer's salvation is predicated upon God's sovereign will, not the will of the believer in question. The timing when one is filled with the Holy Ghost is entirely up to God. All aspects of salvation are predicated upon God's will and grace... not man's effort and desire.

OH MY.. I agree! Though probably not totally on specifics... lol

[LUKE2447]

Here is my question... Do you works have other spiritual gifts?

1.The Word of Knowledge
2.The Word of Wisdom

Subjective to some point can you verify?

3.The Gift of Prophecy
4.The Gift of Faith - again can you verify?
5.The Gifts of Healings
6.The Working of Miracles
7.The Discerning of Spirits - different views on what is meant and can one verify?
8.Different Kinds of Tongues
9.The Interpretation of Tongues

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

The Holy Ghost isn't a commandment, its a promise. If someone believe Acts 2:38 and does their part, God will do his. Sometimes it takes time, but to give up is to quit believing the promise is already theirs. Faith is about going on what isn't seen, not what is seen. I know its hard because what some preach from the pulpit, but if those would recognize the power of God's promises, and that they never fail; this would not be an issue with the desperate believe who wants to receive the Holy Ghost to be saved from hell. God will save them if they seek Christ Jesus. Its a promise. So if salvation is a promise and the HG is a promise, one can understand God will come through, no matter how long it takes them to "speak in tongues"

Alrighty, I'll rephrase it to fit your theology:

It's easier to obey 5,000 commandments than to see one promise fulfilled that is never fulfilled. And you know, the word "Promise" makes this entire discussion even sillier. So here we have scores of people who have fulfilled the "commandment" part after being told that if they do, they'll get something, and then they beg and beg and beg and beg and beg to receive the "Promise" and never get what they were "promised." Doesn't seem like much of a "promise" to me.

Can you hand me a knife? I'm gonna go kill a bull. It's a lot easier than your "promise."

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The timing of a believer's salvation is predicated upon God's sovereign will, not the will of the believer in question. The timing when one is filled with the Holy Ghost is entirely up to God. All aspects of salvation are predicated upon God's will and grace... not man's effort and desire.

Really??? The timing has already been established and mandated. It's God's will that ALL come to repentance. The only thing that remains is man's desire which is fulfilled when he calls upon the name of the Lord.

[Mr. Smith]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

God's word is God's will... right?

Repent and be baptized and after many days... or right away... or whenever I get around to it... you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Exactly. That doesn't make a bit of sense, does it? "Hey guys, it's December 25, let's open the gifts I promised you."








"You know guys.....I don't think you're ready for your gifts. Let's wait until Independence Day next year."

[Austin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

Yes, all we have to do is believe and ask for it. Luke 11 says so. But many believe, many ask, but many come up empty on tongues.

The BIG problem with this subject of the administration and giving of the Holy Ghost to the believer lays within the numerous teachings of in full gospel circles.\Some people have come from main stream denominational churches into the pentecostal churches and have been instructed that they do not have the Holy Ghost because they haven't spoke in tongues. So these wonderful people seek and seek and nothing happens because they have been told they don't have it. The truth of the matter is this. There are some believers who came from a sinner's life style and had a true repetitive experience from the heart and at that time they asked Jesus to come into their heart[ soul] and in most cases He did. The problem is. When something like this happens in a church that don't teach the bible and the giving of the Holy Ghost in the proper contents of scripture then that person even though they could have and would have spoke in tongues at their repetitive experience didn't. Now they are caught up in this advise that they don't have it.
Jesus stated that He would baptise the believer with the Holy Ghost and fire. To be baptised with the spirit of God would be visually then same as being baptised with water. It would mean. To be covered completely or to be totally submerged. So if it is a spiritual baptism then it would mean to be completely over whelmed outwardly as well as inwardly.
This is the best analogy I can give to help understand this.
A person comes to the Lord Jesus and from the heart repents and by faith asks the Lord Jesus to come into his heart. { This would be like a man walking out into a lake of water up to his waist.} Now that the person is in the water what he needs to do is by faith and submission of will fall forward into the water and become totally covered by it.
Your cousin needs to get alone somewhere and involve him self with the Lord in praise and song, lift up his hands toward heaven and allow Jesus to take control of his total being, especially his mind and will. When his human portion of his will is out of the way the Holy Ghost will take over and he shall have that wonderful experience.