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  #11  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:07 PM
Aleks Fife Aleks Fife is offline
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Re: didachē

A helpful document when interpreting text (historical value). It's not scripture and some have misinterpreted things like baptism.

Seems to be valuable, even if it's not canonized. Evidently, the early Church referred to this document, used it, read it, and found it useful.
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  #12  
Old 06-17-2011, 10:11 PM
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Re: didachē

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
It also has baptism in the name of the Lord and triple baptism, in running water. It's an odd document even for Trinitarian standards
not really you can find a few text in history among the early church fathers, that talked about dipping 3 times concerning baptism, and when i speak of church fathers i refer to those before the nicene creed and before rome established christianity as its state religion.

There are some in early church history that quoted from this book in their writings
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:39 PM
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Re: didachē

Quote:
Originally Posted by acerrak View Post
not really you can find a few text in history among the early church fathers, that talked about dipping 3 times concerning baptism, and when i speak of church fathers i refer to those before the nicene creed and before rome established christianity as its state religion.

There are some in early church history that quoted from this book in their writings
And that is odd. You can find all kinds of early documents. Just because they are old does not mean they are truth. The bible does not teach triple baptism

This is evidence early on church members were falling into traditions of men
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  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
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  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
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Last edited by Praxeas; 06-17-2011 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:01 AM
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Re: didachē

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Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
And that is odd. You can find all kinds of early documents. Just because they are old does not mean they are truth. The bible does not teach triple baptism

This is evidence early on church members were falling into traditions of men
people can always look at early church history to get a idea how the early church believed.

Though we dont see it in scriptures, doesnt mean they didnt practice it. Expecially when many people shared the same point throughout a certain time span.
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Old 06-18-2011, 07:01 AM
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Re: didachē

we cannot believe every document we read or every book we read however we can compare notes and come to personal conclusions...we all usually end up believing what we want to anyway...ha...that is our human nature...no point in fussing ...I personally believe the church of Acts baptized in JESUS NAME for that is the way I see scripture. I did not mean to start an argument here just wanted opinions...not only things about baptism do we find in early documents we find many other things that we know were influnced by the thought of pagan religions of that day...

we can take books and make all kinds of so called early church doctrines....the only inspired book howwever is the Bible and from that book and that book alone will we be judged...
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  #16  
Old 06-18-2011, 07:23 AM
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Re: didachē

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Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
we cannot believe every document we read or every book we read however we can compare notes and come to personal conclusions...we all usually end up believing what we want to anyway...ha...that is our human nature...no point in fussing ...I personally believe the church of Acts baptized in JESUS NAME for that is the way I see scripture. I did not mean to start an argument here just wanted opinions...not only things about baptism do we find in early documents we find many other things that we know were influnced by the thought of pagan religions of that day...

we can take books and make all kinds of so called early church doctrines....the only inspired book howwever is the Bible and from that book and that book alone will we be judged...
the fact that matthew 28:19 is also in the bible, which shows why the early church in many areas even before trinitarianism rose was used as a method of baptism. all History is, is a reflection of what these people were taught.

Matthew 28:19 baptism is found in many places and text of different people in history so one cannot simple throw that to the curb

I mean we dont know who the author of hebrews is,but its in the bible.

The didache has been stated to be in the letter of the gentiles, parts have been found in the sriyac form in acts 15. Much of the bible we have today went through changes during the reformation.

Last edited by acerrak; 06-18-2011 at 08:40 AM.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:15 PM
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Re: didachē

yes matt 28 and 19 is in the Bible along with 31,102 other verses....wew...
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  #18  
Old 06-18-2011, 01:21 PM
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Re: didachē

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
yes matt 28 and 19 is in the Bible along with 31,102 other verses....wew...
lol sis. well now you can understand why oneness reject this historical document. Because Oneness disagree with the mode or verbal command of baptism.


But like i stated we have many finds in this age. like the dead sea scrolls, that are authentic, inspired, but do we need to constantly add to the bible? Of course not We have enough. However viewing History in what we call outside sources which is not necessarily a outside source can give us insights to how the early church acted, and what they did.

like baptising in the name of the father Son and Holy Ghost. In essence obeying the great commission.

again in earlier times the bible was much bigger and with more stuff in it, until the prodestant reformation. then books was being thrown out.

People like Martin luther challanged books such of James being non inspired and the same with revelations. Up to about 18 books total in the bible.So the bible we have today evolved some as well
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:41 PM
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Re: didachē

Latourette further acknowledges from the writings of the Post Apostolic Bishops:
"Baptism seems to have been regarded as requisite for the remission of sins and for the new birth through which alone one could enter the Kingdom of God."
The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics states with respect to the teachings of the first and second Century Christians::
"The dominant ideas were those of forgiveness of sin, regeneration, and the gift of the Holy Spirit. . . The change effected by baptism was attributed to the 'name' and to the water, which were regarded as actually effective and not merely symbolic."
The Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics further acknowledges:
"The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion. . . in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands."
The book, Early Christian Baptism, page 389 acknowledges:
"In connection with the name. . . the question of formula arises. The earliest known formula is 'the name of the Lord Jesus. . ."
The Hastings Dictionary of the Bible admits that one could draw the following conclusion from the historical evidence:
"The original form of words was 'into the name of Jesus Christ' or 'the Lord Jesus.' Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development. . ."
The second century book entitled, The Acts of Paul and Thecla, written by a second century Presbyter from Asia Minor gives the following account of water baptism:
". . . in the name of Jesus Christ." Although "Acts of Paul and Thecla is acknowledged to be a fictitious novel, the account of water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ gives support to the belief that this mode of baptism was common in the second century churches of Asia Minor.
Church Historian, Otto Heick, in "A History of Christian Thought" - pages 54, 62, 27 - observed that the Post Apostolic Fathers taught that "baptism confers the forgiveness of sins." was considered "a washing of forgiveness and a regeneration." and that which "brings pardon and the new life, and is therefore necessary for salvation."
Heick further acknowledges:
"At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."
The First Century Epistle of Barnabas (unanimously believed by the early Christian Bishops to be written by the 1st century companion of the apostle Paul) records that water baptism is for the remission of sins:
"Concerning the water, indeed, it is written, in reference to the Israelites, that they should not receive that baptism which leads to the remission of sins, but should procure another for themselves. The prophet therefore declares, 'Be astonished, O heaven, and let the earth tremble at this, because this people has committed two great evils: they have forsaken Me, a living fountain, and have hewn out for themselves cisterns." The Ante-Nicene Father, Volume 1, page 144.
Again The Epistle of Barnabas records (on page #144; Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"Blessed are they who, placing their trust in the cross and have gone down into the water. . .we indeed descent into the water full of sins and defilement, but come up, bearing fruit in our heart, having the (fear of God) and trust in Jesus in our spirit."
The Early Second Century Epistle of Ignatius To The Ephesians records (on page 56, Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"For our God, Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Spirit. He was born and baptized, that by His passion He might purify the water."
The early second century book entitled "The Shepherd of Hermas" records (on page 14, Volume 2 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"Why was the tower built upon waters. . .Hear then why the tower is built upon the waters. It is because your life has been, and will be saved through water. For the tower was founded on the word of the almighty and glorious Name. . ."
Again The Shepherd of Hermas records (on page 49& 50, Volume 2 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"They were obliged. . . to ascend through water in order that they might be made alive; for, unless they laid aside the deadness of their life, they could not in any other way enter into the Kingdom of God. Accordingly, those also who fell asleep received the seal of the Son of God. For before a man bears the name of the Son of God he is dead; but when re receives the seal he lays aside his deadness, and obtains life. The seal then, is the water: they descent into the water dead, and they arise alive. And to them, accordingly, was this seal preached, and they made use of it that they might enter into the Kingdom of God. . . All the nations that dwell under heaven were called by hearing and believing upon the name of the Son of God. Having, therefore, received this seal, they had one understanding and one mind; and their faith became one, and their love one. . . On this account the building of the tower became of one color, bright as the sun."
Irenaeus, the late second century Bishop of Lyons records (on page 574, Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [it served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions; being spiritually regenerated as new born babes, even as the Lord has declared: 'Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven."
Justin Martyr, a mid second century Christian Teacher believed that baptism was necessary for salvation (page 183, Volume 1 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. . .they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, 'Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.' . . .And for this [rite] we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our Parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe."
Tertullian, the second century Bishop of North Africa also believed that baptism is necessary for salvation (page 669, Volume 3 of the Ante-Nicene Fathers):
"Happy is our sacrament of water, in that , by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . But we. . after the example of our Jesus Christ, are born in water. . ."
Although some of the above Christians writers began teaching false doctrines, all of the Early Christian Teachers unanimously believed that it was necessary for all to be baptized by water in order to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. They quoted the words of Jesus in John 3:5 to prove that it was necessary to be born again of the water in order to enter into the Kingdom of God. Even Martin Luther and the Anabaptists continued to believe in baptismal regeneration for the remission of sins. The rejection of the necessity of water baptism for salvation came during the later Protestant Reformation.
It is interesting to note that Tertullian is given credit for beginning the development of the creedal definition of the trinity. Twenty first century Trinitarian Christian Believers must acknowledge that all of the founding Fathers who developed their Trinitarian Doctrine unanimously believed that water baptism was necessary for salvation. Even the Trinity Dogma defined at the Councils of Nicea and Constantinople includes an anathema clause which pronounces a curse on all who reject the Catholic Baptismal Formula into the Trinity. Protestants should know that all who reject baptismal regeneration for the remission of sins are also anathamatized under the Trinitarian Creed.
Oneness believers are everywhere persecuted for rejecting the Nicene and Constantinopoliltan Creed. Yet Protestant, Evangelical, and Trinitarian Pentecostal Groups who reject Oneness Believers as heretical for their refusal to accept this Catholic Nicene Creed must also acknowledge that they are in fact, rejecting a major part of this Creed by rejecting baptismal regeneration for the remission of sins. Trinitarian Christians must acknowledge the historical fact that the very creed which postulates the theory that there are three co-equal and co-eternal divine persons within the Deity also contains a harsh curse against all who reject the Catholic view that all must be baptized into the trinity in order to be born again.
Oneness believers agree with this Catholic Council that it is necessary to be baptized in order to be saved. But Oneness Believers reject Trinitarian Baptism because it robs the believer from receiving the efficacy of the Name of Jesus Christ in water baptism. Water Baptism into the Name of Jesus Christ is clearly a Scriptural Command, not an option (See Acts 2:38; Romans 6:1-6; Colossians 3:17).
The Encyclopedia Brittannica, 11th edition, volume 3, pages 365-366:
"In the third century baptism in the name of Christ was still so widespread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid." Note that Bishop Stephen was not called "a Pope" until the fourth century. This title was not used by the Bishops of Rome until the time of Emperor Galarius.
"A Treatise on Baptism" believed to be written by a third century Bishop name Ursinus:
"Heretics who are already baptized in water in the name of Jesus Christ must only be baptized with the Holy Spirit."
This document affirms that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is the correct mode of baptism. This treatise exhorts Christians who had held other heretical views, not to be rebaptized if they had already been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (even though the Church which baptized them had other false doctrinal views).
The fourth or fifth century document "The Constitution of the Holy Apostles"(Not written by the Apostles) - page 503 - condemned those who perform only "one immersion, which is given into the death of Christ" and requires all baptisms to be performed in the Trinitarian formula of three immersions.
Why did the Catholic Church condemn water baptism by one immersion into the death of Christ if people were not continuing to do so in defiance of the State Church?
The Roman Bishop Pelagius of the sixth century - 556-561 recorded:
"There are many who assert they are baptized in the name of Christ alone with only one immersion. But the evangelical precept which the very God, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, handed down warns us to give each one holy baptism in the name of the Trinity and with a triple immersion also..."
Pope Gregory I wrote on June 22, 601 A.D.:
"Those heretics, however, who are not baptized in the name of the Trinity....these, when they come to the holy Church, are baptized, because what they received while in their error, not being in the name of the Holy Trinity, was not baptism." If these alleged heretics were not baptized in the alleged name of the Trinity - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - they must have been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.
Thomas Edwards of England in 1646 taught that it was heresy to use the words Father, son, and Holy Ghost in baptism as it was a man-made tradition and that true Christian Baptism is "only in the name of Jesus Christ."
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  #20  
Old 06-18-2011, 02:43 PM
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Re: didachē

The eighteenth century Baptist Historian, Robert Robinson (1735-1790) wrote a book entitled, "Ecclesiastical Researches and The History of Baptism. Under the subtitle, Apostolical Baptism, Robinson made the following observations::
"It is observable, there is no mention of baptism in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. Peter exhorted the Jews of Jerusalem to repent and be baptized every one of them in the name of Jesus Christ. Philip baptized the Samaritans in the name of the Lord Jesus. Peter commanded the believers at Caesarea to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Many Christians taking it for granted, that the apostles thoroughly understood the words of the Lord Jesus (Mat. 28:19) ... administer baptism in the name of Christ, and think themselves justified by the book of the Acts of the Apostles."
Robinson goes on to write:
"All the classes, who did not hold the doctrine of a trinity of persons of God, whether called Artemonites, Paulianists, Arians, Monarchians, Patropassians, Sabellians, or by any other name, administered baptism in the name of Christ..."
"...others deemed heretics by the Catholics were literally Anabaptists in regard to the Catholics. Themselves were baptized once by dipping in the name of Christ: but when Catholics, who had been dipped in the name of the trinity, joined their churches, they rebaptized them. The Catholics resented this, and considered it, as it really was, a tacit denial of the whole of their religion."
"They all held (Anabaptist Groups), that the catholic corporation was not a church of Christ, and they therefore rebaptized such as had been baptized in that community, before they admitted them into their own societies. For this reason they were called in general Anabaptists."
"...they baptized converts from pagans and jews, they rebaptized all catholics; and they baptized none without a personal confession of faith. They called themselves Christians; they censured the fraud and folly of those, who imposed on the world by calling themselves Catholics, and who ought rather to call themselves Cyprianites, being the apostate followers of that pretended saint; they quoted abundance of scripture to prove that a new testament church consisted of only virtuous persons, born of water and the Spirit; they separated from the Catholics on account of the impurity of their church; they despised councils, and expressed their astonishment, that Christians should approve of such superficial writings as those of Cyprian, and others called fathers; and they took the new testament for the rule of a Christian's faith and practice."
I also find it astonishing that the majority of twenty first century believers claiming to reject Catholicism are in all actuality continuing in some of the same apostate practices of their Mother. The false doctrine of the trinity both robs the believer of the efficacy of the Name of Jesus Christ in water baptism and perverts the full Deity of Christ. We must acknowledge that The False Doctrine of the Trinity was developed by the Councils of the Roman Catholic Institution and not by the Apostles of Christ.
Oneness Believers are also condemned because they also reject the Apostate Form of Pseudo Christian Baptism developed by the Catholics and insist on rebaptizing all who had been misled into being baptized into the Trinitarian Formula. The Catholic Church use to baptize by full body immersion three times, one for each alleged person of the Deity.
Perhaps most Evangelicals and Trinitarian Pentecostals would not require rebaptism if the Catholic Church was today baptizing by full body immersion into the alleged Trinity of Persons. True Christian Believers must reject the corrupt teachings of the harlot church and be baptized into Jesus Christ. It is obvious that the Mother of Harlots has produces Protestant Daughters who have followed her form of False Christianity.
When Christians reject the Name of Christ they are an offence to the bridegroom. The True New Testament Church is called "the Bride of Christ." What kind of bride would reject her husbands name? Will not such a bride be rejected by Christ when He returns? Will He not say, "I never knew you. Depart from Me. For you bear not My Name."
The historical evidence proving that the Jesus Name mode of baptism continued throughout the centuries of The Church is overwhelming. If rebaptism into the name of Jesus Christ was not a continuing problem for the Catholic Church, why did the Catholic Councils so viciously condemn Jesus Name Baptism through the centuries? The following Councils condemned the Jesus Only form of Baptism:

The Council of Constantinople in 382 A.D. specifically condemns Sabellian (Oneness) baptism into Jesus Christ. This Catholic Council mentions that the Sabellian form of baptism was prevalent in Galatia in A.D. 382.

The Justinian Code of 529 A.D. declared the death penalty for both anti-Trinitarian baptism and rebaptism.

The Council of Constantinople of 553 A.D. again condemned Sabellian (Oneness) baptism for:
"retaining single immersion under a single name."

The devil hates Jesus Name Baptism. This is why the harlot church continued to persecute the True Church of Christ. And this is why the Jesus Name Movement of the twenty first century continues to be persecuted today. True Christians must come out from the whole catholic institution. The Catholic Church has been the greatest channel of deception that has deceived whole nations and peoples. God's Word says, "Come out of her, my people, that you be not partakers of her sins (Rev. 18:4). . ."
"And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me saying, Come here; I will show unto you the judgement of the great whore that sits upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. . . And upon her forehead was written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. . . And here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits. It is a well documented historical fact that the ancient city of Rome was known as "The City of Seven Hills".
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