An abuse of authority???? - Page 2

deltaguitar · #11 07-12-2011, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

So are you indicating that if a Christian leaders sees another Christian behaving in a manner that is not Christlike, yet they consider one another "close enough" to be friends, the leader does not have the right to even loosely mention it in their status as to warn other believers? No names were ever mentioned, until the individual became angry at the Pastor's status. The Pastor never mentioned any names until it became obvious. There was no control issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

What exactly did the Pastor do TO the "non-memeber." There was no mention of a name or anything. The Pastor simply commented that Christians should watch their witness and that participating in ___ behavior is not becoming to the saints.

Now, the individual who was obviously offended is KNOWN to participate in ____ behavior, but no names were mentioned by the Pastor.

How is it dumb for a leader to warn other Christians that God is not pleased with such behavior?

What the pastor did in warning the saints was not such a bad thing. The fact that he did it on facebook after seeing someone else doing the exact same thing and embarrassing them is the problem.

If I see one of my friends posing picks on facebook of them at a strip club and then I put on my status about warning about the dangers of strip clubs then I could expect me friend to be embarrassed and possibly offended because everyone else can see it.

Facebook doesn't change the rules of behavior but it is allowing pastors to see people in a light that might be horrifying to them. If we are somehow caught off guard by sinners then we need to go spend some time around them to remind ourselves that if not for the grace of God we would be in the same place.

The pastor should have admonished his saints quietly and in a way that would not embarrass the sinner.

kingdomapostle · #12 07-12-2011, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

What the pastor did in warning the saints was not such a bad thing. The fact that he did it on facebook after seeing someone else doing the exact same thing and embarrassing them is the problem.

If I see one of my friends posing picks on facebook of them at a strip club and then I put on my status about warning about the dangers of strip clubs then I could expect me friend to be embarrassed and possibly offended because everyone else can see it.

Facebook doesn't change the rules of behavior but it is allowing pastors to see people in a light that might be horrifying to them. If we are somehow caught off guard by sinners then we need to go spend some time around them to remind ourselves that if not for the grace of God we would be in the same place.

The pastor should have admonished his saints quietly and in a way that would not embarrass the sinner.

I think I understand what you are saying, however, I'm not sure if I agree. Why is it NOT okay for the Pastor to publically take a stand for something that is ungodly? This person is not ignorant of the truth, and even professes Christ. If this Christian is publically displaying this behavior WHY should the Pastor keep quiet?

deltaguitar · #13 07-12-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

I started off trying to be VERY general. However, here are the details as specific as I can be without disclosing the individuals mentioned above. For the sake of clarity, I'll use Pastor and Christian when referring to the two individuas this discussion centers around.

Days ago the Pastor notices the Christian's status messages. They are full of profanity, and references smoking, going to the club, and other ungoldy behavior.

At first, the Pastor says nothing to the Christian or anyone, but later in the week, the Pastor's status message says something like (indirect quote): Saints, we must be mindful of our witness. We can not expect babes in Christ to get a good impression of us as Christians if we purposely post behavior in our status messages that does not reflect Christ. Advertising smoking, going to the club and other behavior is your choice, but please do not misrepresent Christ on facebook when you claim to serve him.

Of course, this can fit anyone, but the Christian in question goes on a complete tangent as a response, calling the Pastor's name out, their ministry, and even uses profanity...attempting to "correct" the behavior of the Pastor saying that he abused his authority.

_____tried to be clear_____________

I would be very upset if my pastor did something like this. It is not wise. It is clear that this person is not a christian. I think the pastor should publicly apologize because of the offense. He was stepping outside the biblical way of handling issues like this.

If you have a brother who is in sin, first go them quietly so as not to expose them to everyone.

Second, take someone with you and admonish them in love.

Only when truly necessary and repentance is not going to happen do we expel them from the church or admonish publically.

There are just to many people on facebook to do this sort of thing.

Once again, I think the pastor's greatest mistake is assuming this person was 1) a christian 2) thinking that this person was under his authority because it is clear they are not and 3) handling a manner in public that could easily be interpreted.

The pastor needs to apologize and do the right thing. End of story. Call him up and explain that he handled in wrong and for the sake of the sinner announce that he handled a sensitive situation the wrong way.

deltaguitar · #14 07-12-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

I think I understand what you are saying, however, I'm not sure if I agree. Why is it NOT okay for the Pastor to publically take a stand for something that is ungodly? This person is not ignorant of the truth, and even professes Christ. If this Christian is publically displaying this behavior WHY should the Pastor keep quiet?

Is this person a member of the Pastor's church or a member of any church for that matter?

The pastor has every right to admonish sinful behavior but to speak specifically against someone in public isn't wise and I think it borderlines on sinful himself.

Praxeas · #15 07-12-2011, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

I think I understand what you are saying, however, I'm not sure if I agree. Why is it NOT okay for the Pastor to publically take a stand for something that is ungodly? This person is not ignorant of the truth, and even professes Christ. If this Christian is publically displaying this behavior WHY should the Pastor keep quiet?

Do it publically in church.

kingdomapostle · #16 07-12-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

I would be very upset if my pastor did something like this. It is not wise. It is clear that this person is not a christian. I think the pastor should publicly apologize because of the offense. The was stepping outside the biblical way of handling issues like this.

If you have a brother who is in sin, first go them quietly so as not to expose them to everyone.

Second, take someone with you and admonish them in love.

Only when truly necessary and repentance is not going to happen do we expel them from the church or admonish publically.

There are just to many people on facebook to do this sort of thing.

Once again, I think the pastor's greatest mistake is assuming this person was 1) a christian 2) thinking that this person was under his authority because it is clear they are not and 3) handling a manner in public that could easily be interpreted.

The pastor needs to apologize and do the right thing. End of story. Call him up and explain that he handled in wrong and for the sake of the sinner announce that he handled a sensitive situation the wrong way.

You assume that the person is not saved and perhaps that is why you feel so strongly. On the contrary, this person professes holiness, quotes scriptures, boast about the ministry they attend (in which the Pastor knows the other members and leaders quite well) and have even fellowshiped with the Pastor and His church.

Praxeas · #17 07-12-2011, 02:47 PM

I think the "Christian in question" revealed something about his or herself in the process

Praxeas · #18 07-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

You assume that the person is not saved and perhaps that is why you feel so strongly. On the contrary, this person professes holiness, quotes scriptures, boast about the ministry they attend (in which the Pastor knows the other members and leaders quite well) and have even fellowshiped with the Pastor and His church.

I don't think he was assuming anything., Your post was incredibly vague and it's a little frustrating to judge what we say based on unrevealed facts

kingdomapostle · #19 07-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Is this person a member of the Pastor's church or a member of any church for that matter?

The pastor has every right to admonish sinful behavior but to speak specifically against someone in public isn't wise and I think it borderlines on sinful himself.

As stated earlier, the Christian IS in fact in fellowship with the churches this Pastor fellowships with. In fact they share MANY mutual friends both of which are other Pastors and other members. The Pastor spoke specifically about the issue, but not about the individual.

deltaguitar · #20 07-12-2011, 02:48 PM

Another issue. There are people in this world who do not consider profanity as sinful as you and I would. Going to the club is not a sin in itself. It can certainly lead to sin and as a christian I don't want to be in a place like that because of the temptation. There has to be grace for issues that are not black and white until a person can walk in maturity.