Matt Maddix

[canam]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Sure you do. An innocent man died for the forgiveness of your sins. Did the end there justify the means?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by jfrog

How can you be soo sure that it wasn't necessary in order to grab some poor lost soul's attention and bring him to God? Don't get me wrong, I dislike the crazy antics myself. But I also remember a passage where Paul wrote that we should not judge another's servant.

With your logic you could justify any behavior. I can "be sure" because God gave me a brain. There is nothing you can say that will make me think his "style" is a good or worthwhile thing.

(hey, maybe he could wear a clown suit with a big horn attached to it that he could honk for emphasis when he makes a good point in his sermons! I mean that might appeal to somebody in the world and get some "poor lost soul's attention and bring him to God"!)

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CC1

You are completely missing the point. What I said has nothing to do with the example you gave. Jesus being the perfect sacrifice for our sins was something that was necessary for our salvation and logical. MM doing somersaults in the middle of his screaming sermons is not necessary or desired by anybody other than some OP's who seem to revel in those type of antics and attach spirituality to them. I find it a sad situation.

I wasn't referring to his preaching style when I referenced his "methods." The "culture shock" comes from his "out-of-the-walls-church" and emphasis on no-strings-attached outreach to the community. For a lot of Christians, THAT is shocking--and they need to be shocked out of their comfort zones.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I wasn't referring to his preaching style when I referenced his "methods."

Which methods are you referencing?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CC1

Which methods are you referencing?

Edited my post.

Also, I should have said, "For a lot of Apostolic Christians...." Other denominations have had charity and outreach as a top priority for many years. The Catholic church is a prime example.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Edited my post.

LOL!!! I believe I agreed with you that I have heard he has done a lot of good things in his community (like giving out a bazillion turkeys at Thanksgiving, etc).

[PreacherV]

Originally Posted by CC1

MM doing somersaults in the middle of his screaming sermons is not necessary or desired by anybody other than some OP's who seem to revel in those type of antics and attach spirituality to them. I find it a sad situation.

I find your assessment interesting. I doubt MM or others of us who sometimes go beyond what is deemed "necessary or desired" will ever change our unseemly behaviors to assuage the Michals who look down from their windows with disdain at the ridiculous actions of the Davids out in the streets.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by CC1

With your logic you could justify any behavior. There is nothing you can say that will make me think his "style" is a good or worthwhile thing.

(hey, maybe he could wear a clown suit with a big horn attached to it that he could honk for emphasis when he makes a good point in his sermons! I mean that might appeal to somebody in the world and get some "poor lost soul's attention and bring him to God"!)

Now you are gettin the idea! My questions to you is: if dressing up as a clown worked for reaching some of the lost and if no one else was doing that and if no other ways were reaching them would you dress up as a clown?

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by CC1

LOL!!! I believe I agreed with you that I have heard he has done a lot of good things in his community (like giving out a bazillion turkeys at Thanksgiving, etc).

We probably agree completely, then. I've been in service with him, and as with other ministers who get a little crazy or loud, I tend to wince when they go Native American Indian War cry. However, I stop there and don't attribute it as a character flaw. I do believe it limits their effectiveness, and some self-discipline would help their ministry; not hurt it.

I have men in my family who preach that way (loudly--not jumping on top of pulpits). One guy does this little war-cry whoop thing when he's made a good point, and I think it's funny--I actually like it. Another one does a funny sound in between his lines. They're wonderful people and getting loud during a sermon doesn't mean anything bad. At all. It just means that 1. they're excited about their message, and 2. it's what they're used to doing. No one ever told them they shouldn't when they were learning to preach, and frankly, I wouldn't want to change them one iota.

There's room for all types. That doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy certain people, but there's still room for their personalities in the body of Christ. We shouldn't underestimate their ability to reach people, especially in certain niches of our culture. There are some people who respond well to overly-exuberant preaching, because all they've ever heard is boring, liturgical church and it's new and exciting and they're going to sit up and pay attention. On the flip side, some of us who have heard screaming all our lives find the quiet stuff refreshing and may even prefer it as we get older.

Personally, I can handle it either way, as long as I can understand what's being said. If the screaming is such that I can't even make out the words of the speaker, then I'm annoyed and may just skip the preaching altogether. Okla. youth camp had a screamer one year, and he screamed so loudly into the mic that you couldn't possibly understand what was being said. It was pointless.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Now you are gettin the idea! My questions to you is: if dressing up as a clown worked for reaching some of the lost and if no one else was doing that and if no other ways were reaching them would you dress up as a clown?

Again I am saying with your logic all behavior is correct in preaching if there is one mentally handicapped person in the world who will respond to some absurdity. No I do not think preachers should resort to idiocy in the pulpit to somehow reach some wacko it will appeal to. Common sense has to prevail and common sense tells me there is no logical or biblical precedent for turning somersaults and screaming during a sermon. Absolutely no Biblical precedent for that. I don't recall Jesus doing that during the sermon on the mount or any other time during his ministry nor do we have any record in Acts or the epistles of the Apostles acting like idiots.

Have you considered how many people would be turned off by stupid behavior and perhaps never darken the door of a pentecostal church again? I bet there are a lot more of those than the wackos who would be "reached" by those somersaults.