Book Discussion: Pagan Christianity

[Amanah]

thank you DM

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

good stuff amanah. almost like a blog. but keep it here. i think tim keller has some sermons on community. i've heard that holy water came from german pagans that worshipped streams and rivers. when charlemagne became emperor, he introduced german practices empire wide.

I never heard that. Very interesting brother.

[SRM]

Pagan Christianity is a book every Christian should read..including Pastors..you will be shocked to learn how much Churches today including the Apostolic are NOT like the early church at all...then again if you do not like being challenged I do not recommend it.

[Jay]

Having seen the way some synagogues are laid out, I would say that we are likely structured after the Jewish synagogue. This would be due to the influence that the Apostles and early church leaders, who were Jewish, had that was passed down to the modern day.

He is also sadly out of date where steeples are concerned. Most modern churches do not have a prominent steeple. Often the Catholic churches were designed like mini cathedrals and would not have had steeples either. I do not seem to know of steeples before the mid to late 1600s. This would put it too late for it too be a Catholic influence, especially as it often adorns Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Nazarene, Wesleyan, Holiness, and Pentecostal churches. Also, I believe that it could be argued that the building style was actually more Anglo/American than continental European.

[Jay]

Actually, most of what adorns a church that we call a 'steeple' is actually a spire. A steeple is actually the tower and the spire would rest on it, if we are discussing architecture of cathedrals. I was partially incorrect.

[Amanah]

I will be commenting now on Chapter 5, pages 105 thru 143, his chapter on Pastors.

Viola makes it clear that he has the utmost respect and love for Pastors. His critique is that a special clerical class/hierarchy is not in the bible. Men have always insisted on a mediator between them and God for they feared to approach God for themselves.
Clerical rule was instituted by the Catholic Church. Rome had Bishops and cardinals who were corrupt and yielded political power that had nothing to do with serving God’s people. There is no person who is divinely appointed to mediate between God and the people.

The early church had no religious offices. There was no ordination. The early church was the first lay-led movement. “Elders naturally emerged in a church through the process of time. They were not appointed to an external office. Instead they were recognized by virtue of their seniority and spiritual service to the church. “ (Viola 123-134)

Viola contends that the reformation recovered the priesthood of believers for the individual believer, but not for the church corporately. The reformation church still kept the idea of a one man rule: “Luther believed that the church is simply a gathering of people who listen to preaching.” (Viola 133)

Viola feels that the reformation church model put an unfair burden on the Pastor who is trying to do it all. “Jesus Christ never intended any person to sport all the hats a present-day pastor is expected to wear. He never intended any one person to bear such a load.” (Viola 139)

This is a subject I know very little about and I really hesitated to even comment on it. But I do think that the pressure and heart ache of being a pastor might be almost unbearable. And that a system that takes some of that pressure off a Pastor and allows them to share the weight with others, and allows them to be more human, not having to try to portray themselves as super spiritual all the time might be helpful to pastors and to the gifted lay people who can step up and share the burden.

Viola, of course, feels the answer is the home church movement where because of the small groups people are allowed to minister to each other, which would take the pressure off of one person trying to do it all. I'm not promoting his viewpoint. I'm just exploring his ideas to try to understand the viewpoint.

[Amanah]

When I was going thru chemo, sometimes I attended a local AoG church near my house because I was often too exhausted/sick from chemo to drive very far. The Pastor of that church resigned his position to do this. So the topic is interesting to me on more then one level.

http://www.housechurchnet.com/About_Us.html

ABOUT US...

The Life Connections house-church network was established on May 1, 2010, in Sebastian, Florida. I (Tom) had been the pastor of a local church for 23 years, and sensed God changing my ministry direction. My wife, Nancy, and I have a vision to see a multitude of local-area house churches established, all in a network with one common goal: To work with Jesus Christ as He builds His church just as He did in the book of Acts.

We retired from the church to pursue this vision, and want to encourage those who wish to attend or start simple churches in homes, offices, schools, coffee shops, wherever.

If you're looking for a house church in our area, we can help by putting you in contact with those we know. If you have an existing house church, you may want to be listed as part of the network. If you'd like to start a house church, we can provide contacts, ideas, and encouragement. Or maybe you just want to find out what a simple church or house church is all about.

The network provides referrals, helps arrange for area celebrations for all house churches together, and offers personal help and encouragement as needed.

In any case, we have no personal agenda, have no desire to control anything, and ask for nothing in return. We want people to experience the close fellowship, spiritual growth, and dynamic relationships we read of in the book of Acts; and in turn reach many others with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's simple, really.

[Amanah]

Also from Tom and Nancy's website:


http://www.housechurchnet.com/What_Is.html


What is “Simple Church” or “House Church?”

First, it is NOT:
= A denomination or connected with a denomination
= A mini-version of the traditional, institutional church
= A cell group or home fellowship from a larger, community church

What it IS:
= A self-governing, stand-alone expression of the Church Jesus established; one that operates on the same principles as the church we find described in the New Testament.

= A small (10 to 20) community of people learning together how to live the Christian life, reaching out to friends, neighbors, and family with God’s love and grace.

= A place where everyone is accepted and can feel secure and significant; where every person has a chance to participate in the life of the church, and to use their spiritual gifts.

Our foundation:
Jesus Christ is the head of His church. We submit to Him and then function as He directs us through the Holy Spirit.

The Bible is our only source of truth and our only guide in matters of faith and conduct. We use other books and teachings only as they faithfully expand our understanding of Biblical truth.

The House-church pattern:
Acts 2:42-47 (New Living Translation)
42 All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord’s Supper[]), and to prayer.
43 A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders. 44 And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had.45 They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. 46 They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity-47 all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved.

Some house-church basics from the New Testament church example:
= There is no “senior pastor” or other “one-man” leadership as practiced in the traditional, institutional church. As in the early church, the house church functions under the unassuming leadership of elders, and every member contributes to and participates in the evangelism and disciple-making efforts of the church.

= There are no salaried staff members or formal programs. The church is the program, the members are the staff, and the family of God is the life.

= There is no desire to acquire property or buildings. Meetings are held primarily in homes, but may meet in office buildings, coffee houses, clubhouses, or wherever there is available space.

= If practical, the members share a meal at every meeting.

= We pray for one another, give to one another's needs, support ministries and missionaries, share life.

= The growth pattern is primarily multiplication, not addition. As each house church reaches 20 or so members, the goal is to start another house church in the home or chosen location of one of the members. The purpose is not to build a large congregation, but a network of many house churches.

= Each meeting should have practical Bible teaching as part of the activity. All members participate in discussion. The better we know our Father, the more effective we’ll be in serving Him and the more our lives will reflect the love of Christ.

= Occasionally all house churches in the network will come together for a celebration meeting with special speakers, music, etc. Combined fellowship demonstrates that we belong to something much larger than our individual house churches.

= Children profit from being a part of church family life. Each house church will discover how to integrate them into the church so they, too, become disciples of Jesus. At times they may be taken aside for age-appropriate teaching, games, or activities. The goal is to include them as much as possible. There’s already too much segregation of children in our culture.

Five Basic Functions of Simple Churches/House Churches:

1. PRAYER
Not only should the founding of the house church be bathed in prayer, but we should always be praying for those in need among the members and for those in our circle of influence who need to restore their relationships with God through Jesus Christ.

2. MEET
This means to meet new, unsaved people and form genuine relationships with them. Our outreach should be intentional and openly loving. The goal is to build the kingdom of God with new believers who receive Christ and become part of His church.

3. MAKE DISCIPLES
We take time to teach, train, and demonstrate what it means to be a disciple of Jesus Christ. Disciple making can begin before a person receives Christ, just as Jesus demonstrated with His own disciples.

4. GATHER TOGETHER
Meetings of the house church should be held weekly, just as they did in the New Testament, supplemented by meetings of smaller groups during the week. A meal should be served at all weekly meetings to promote the family atmosphere God desires for His church. At least some form of food should be involved. Every meeting should be spontaneous, with no set format, so God is free to respond to the needs of the members. In addition, the communion bread and wine should also be a part of every meeting to remember Jesus, just as He said.

5. MULTIPLY
The desire of house churches is not only to add members but also to expand through planting more house churches,. This must be the goal from the start, and should be be promoted regularly. It’s easy for us to get comfortable and ingrown unless we intentionally determine to multiply.

[Digging4Truth]

Amanah,

I've read the book and I need to read it again. As has been said it is a book everyone should read. I am thoroughly enjoying your commentary on the book and I hope you continue to share your thoughts with us as you progress through the book.

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with us. This is a very enjoyable thread.

[Lafon]

This book is a part of my library (first read it more than a year ago), and found it to be quite interesting.

One of the things which it prompted me to do was to take note of the roots from whence the modern OAP Church came - Trinitarian denominationism, which is to say, those whose roots began with the "Protesting Catholics" who separated themselves from the RCC - thus the term "Protestant."

Because the modern OAP Church can traces its roots to the RCC, then I suspect that its possible we continue to embrace and practice some of its "pagan" practices, albeit unwittingly.

Amanah, I appreciate your comments concerning this book. They challenge me to want to read it again.