Denying the Lord and still Saved?

[crakjak]

Much distorted views of the Creator!!!

[AreYouReady?]

We can make judgments about another facing this situation, but we don't know how we are going to react if it were us facing such treatment. Peter told the Lord:

But he spake the more vehemently, If I should die with thee, I will not deny thee in any wise. Likewise also said they all. (Mark 14:31)

Peter was with the Lord when the Lord said :But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

(Matthew 10:33)

Yet, Peter was forgiven when Christ resurrected from the grave. We have an awesome God who forgives our fears and stumblings. I believe that God looks past our shallow emotions and straight into our hearts.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

You make my point here, which is it is what is in your heart that matters.
One can certainly speak from the heart, and what you say in general will certainly reveal your heart to others, but this doesn't change my belief, and I would say verifiable, that you cannot accept or deny Christ with your mouth, it has to be with your heart. While your quote is true, mouths can lie, hearts cannot.

Notice for every "mouth" up there, there is a "heart," and let me reiterate that whatever noises pass your lips without heart are just that; noises.

[bbyrd009]

Another thing about this whole...scenario, btw, is that it is completely death centered, imo. We are hedged about with protection by God, I feel it often now; protected from pain, well "hurt" might be a better word, 24/7.

When you are delivered up before antiChrist, which btw is just not prolly going to be like that picture in your head--lol, I got it, too, the "literal fever;" we lay in bed at night, imagining ourselves walking into a like a king's court or something, satan on a throne, surrounded by a court full of cronies, and testifying for God, lol--satan will not be able to harm a hair on your head, ok?

This false image is reinforced by stories we hear of people being tortured in the news.
Please consider how your...eschatology? is formed, in just this manner. And what a complete load of yack it is. It is an image that satan hopes you think about a lot, because that's all he's got is a lie. You have absolutely no Scripture to back up this image that keeps you awake at night, even after you're "saved." Can you say death?

Or, is there some way that this image edifies you?

[Jay]

I will answer when not connected to irritating machinery.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by bbyrd009

Another thing about this whole...scenario, btw, is that it is completely death centered, imo. We are hedged about with protection by God, I feel it often now; protected from pain, well "hurt" might be a better word, 24/7.

When you are delivered up before antiChrist, which btw is just not prolly going to be like that picture in your head--lol, I got it, too, the "literal fever;" we lay in bed at night, imagining ourselves walking into a like a king's court or something, satan on a throne, surrounded by a court full of cronies, and testifying for God, lol--satan will not be able to harm a hair on your head, ok?

This false image is reinforced by stories we hear of people being tortured in the news.
Please consider how your...eschatology? is formed, in just this manner. And what a complete load of yack it is. It is an image that satan hopes you think about a lot, because that's all he's got is a lie. You have absolutely no Scripture to back up this image that keeps you awake at night, even after you're "saved." Can you say death?

Or, is there some way that this image edifies you?

Huh?

You really really need to start taking something.

[houston]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Huh?

You really really need to start taking something.

Be nice.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

We always talk about the person who, in the face of severe persecution, strongly stands until the end. They don't give into torture, and they hold their tongue while being electrocuted, beaten, or boiled to death.

Then there is the person, who just couldn't hold out. They gave in, as their flesh was being ripped from their body, in pieces. The only relief was to deny the Lord, so they do, and the perpetrators kill the person anyway.

You just have to wonder...does God hold this person accountable for caving under a pressure and torture beyond our wildest dreams.

There is one instance, where a Father is told, “Deny the Lord and we won’t kill your son!” They hold the son in front of this Father, and they begin to torture him. The son’s tears and screaming are too much for this Father, so he denies the Lord to save his son.

God knows the heart. David feined insanity.

[KeptByTheWord]

Abraham lied twice about his wife/sister Sarah. Peter denied the Lord and was given a second chance. Yes, you can speak with your mouth, but the Lord knows your heart.

Unspeakable and unimaginable situations for us, the situation NFS has described. And yet, the days ahead could bring situations such as these things right into our lives. But as BB says, lying awake at night worrying about these things, will do little good either. When the time comes, the Holy Spirit, if dwelling in your life, will give you the strength, and knowledge needed.

[bbyrd009]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Huh?

You really really need to start taking something.

These images of being delivered up for torture to make a stand for Christ, and avoiding coercion to speak something that your heart would not agree with is the imagining of a child. It has no basis in reality. Our common image of being brought into some chamber to testify in front of satan and allowing the Holy Spirit to speak through us, "then," is equally naive. It is called The RevelatioN, and we must understand I AM before we can really even begin to have any relevant doctrinal discussions.

This future scenario casting is a device designed to displace your center in time, and it works great.