Revelation Chapters 21 and 22... later 19 and 20

[Scott Hutchinson]

I find it interesting that REV.1:3 says this.
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy,and keeps those things which are written in it ; for the time is near.
REV. 1:3 NKJV
I understand that the Bible says every eye shall see him, Ok hows does this apply to those physically blind ?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I understand that the Bible says every eye shall see him, Ok hows does this apply to those physically blind ?

VERY GOOD POINT! Literaslists want ot be literal to the "T". So that demands that blinded physical eyes must see this.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

VERY GOOD POINT! Literaslists want ot be literal to the "T". So that demands that blinded physical eyes must see this.

Bro Blume,

If you say the literalists want to be literal to the 'T' then to be fair you would have to say those who take things spiritually should take things spiritually to the 'T'.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Bro Blume,

If you say the literalists want to be literal to the 'T' then to be fair you would have to say those who take things spiritually should take things spiritually to the 'T'.

I said what I did because literalists tell me they take everything literal unless it is impossible for it to be taken literally. We propose that we are only meant to take literal what is specifically explained to be literal. This throws an entirely different light on the issue of Revelation. Revelation is a book of visions that follow seven letters to seven churches. We take all the visions symbolically, since Rev 1:1 says they "signify" - or are symbolic. So to say we must take everything symbolic if literalists must take everything literally is missing our qualifier that states the visionary elements alone are symbolic.

Anyway, what is your response specifically to the thought of ALL EYES seeing Jesus? We seem to read criticism of what we say, but we never read an alternative interpretation about what the critics believe, themselves. Is every eye "every eye" or not?

[Scott Hutchinson]

The Bible uses literal and symbolic or figurative language.
The Bible says Jesus Christ was the lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world.Now did Jesus Christ become a four footed animal that went baah baah ? Of course not this is symbolic imagery for Jesus Christ being or making the vicarious sacrifice for fallen Adam's sin problem.
Jesus gave Peter the Keys Of The Kingdom ,did Jesus give Peter a set of keys like the Pope holds up? The keys are symbolic of a message that when obedied grants access or entrance into the Kingdom of God.
The Bible is full of Hebraic idioms since it was written by Semitic people who often used symbolic imagery in their manner of communication.
One can't read a Eastern book with a Western mindset and really understand what the texts originally were meant to convey.You can't make the literal symbolic ,and the symbolic literal and rightly divide the word of truth.
The Bible is a literal as well as a symbolic book.

[Revelationist]

When things slow down on a verse, we'll go on to the next verse... and it looks like things have slowed for verse one... so... next verse...

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

God no longer inhabits the Old Jersulam, so here somes the new Jerusalem... "prepared as a bride adorned for her husband". What a revelation of Jesus Christ and His Body.

Jerry Moon

[Revelationist]

Rev 21:3
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
KJV

Is not the tabernacle of God with men now? The veil has been rent, and we have access to the Holys of Holys.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Anyway, what is your response specifically to the thought of ALL EYES seeing Jesus? We seem to read criticism of what we say, but we never read an alternative interpretation about what the critics believe, themselves. Is every eye "every eye" or not?

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


When I read it I understand it to mean, Jesus will return in the clouds and every eye [that can see] will see him and they also which pierced him [not the Roman soldiers at the cross but the Jewish descendents of those Jews who accepted His blood to be put upon their hands when Pilate didn't want to crucify Christ]: and all the kindreds of the earth [all mankind that is alive on the earth] shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

When I read it I understand it to mean, Jesus will return in the clouds and every eye [that can see] will see him

So you admit you cannot go entirely literal with that verse.

and they also which pierced him [not the Roman soldiers at the cross but the Jewish descendents of those Jews who accepted His blood to be put upon their hands when Pilate didn't want to crucify Christ]:

That cannot be true. The ones who directly slew Him are the ones involved. To think the jew's descendants are the guilty people is to violate what the bible plainly said about Israel.

Eze 18:1-4 KJV The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, (2) What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? (3) As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. (4) Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

The above specifically pointed to Israel and said the idea that the descendants would suffer due to the sins of their forefathers is absolutely not possible, since the only ones who suffer due to sins are the people who directly committed those sins, and no more.

and all the kindreds of the earth [all mankind that is alive on the earth] shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Incorrect again.

The Greek terms for KINDREDS and EARTH are shown to be translated as follows:

Rev 1:7 KJV+ Behold,2400 he cometh2064 with3326 clouds;3507 and2532 every3956 eye3788 shall see3700 him,846 and2532 they also which3748 pierced1574 him:846 and2532 all3956 kindreds5443 of the3588 earth1093 shall wail2875 because of1909 him.846 Even so,3483 Amen.281

G5443
φυλή
phulē
foo-lay'
From G5453 (compare G5444); an offshoot, that is, race or clan: - kindred, tribe.

G1093
γῆ
gē
ghay
Contracted from a primary word; soil; by extension a region, or the solid part or the whole of the terrene globe (including the occupants in each application): - country, earth (-ly), ground, land, world.

Notice that of all the definitions, "PHULE" is translated KINDRED or TRIBE. The definition can be "RACE", but that would violate Ezekiel 18 as well. People wailing because of Christ's coming could not refer to the issue of Him being crucified as Rev 1:7 says it is, unless they are the people alive during the time of the generation who killed Him. Only that generation could be punished since God does not put the sins of the fathers upon the children.

Please explain Ezekiel 18 in light of this issue if you disagree.

And "GHAY" is translated as EARTH, COUNTRY, GROUND, LAND and WORLD in the KJV. In order to choose which definition is correct, we have to analyze what would and what would not violate what the Bible sets forth in implicated issues. So if we limit the wrath to those people who directly sinned, and not their ancestors, so as to not violate Ezekiel 18, the only conclusion we can come up with is all the "tribes of the land" shall wail, since John was told it would shortly come to pass and it was at hand, and the descendants can never suffer due to the sins of their forefathers. That restricts it to national Israel in the first century.

Preterism correctly maintains ALL THAT THE SCRIPTURE SAYS about everything involved -- the sins of the fathers not being put upon their descendants, especially, as well as the notation that it was an event that was at hand 2000 years ago, and would come to pass shortly.

[Revelationist]

Rev 1:3-6


4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
KJV

We have been bought by his own blood, and he has (that's present tense) made up kings and priest unto God. We reign with Christ now. How? Everytime we make our request known before the throne of God in Prayer.

Jerry Moon