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  #11  
Old 04-01-2013, 12:28 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
I'm glad to hear that many people got to hear the gospel yesterday at your church, and I'm sure this happened yesterday at churches all around the world.

When the gospel of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection is preached, and if the one preaching has completely surrendered his life to the Lord, there will be signs and wonders that follow the Word preached. We see that in the NT.

The gospel is enough... but until those who preach the gospel have completely sold out and surrendered their life to Jesus, the signs and wonders will not be able to follow.

The gospel is enough. It can stand all by itself.

But if we want to see the POWER that the early NT church had... it takes a completely surrendered and obedient heart to Jesus for the signs and wonders to follow... and this is what is sadly lacking in the churches today.

We want the goodies without the sacrifice. We want the signs and wonders without surrender. We want the miracles without a sacrifice. We want our wish list answered without any suffering on our part.

We want the resurrection, but we don't want any part of the death and burial.


The gospel is simple. Die out to sin. Buried in the blood of the lamb. Miraculous transformation takes place after a complete death of self and will and then, and only then will the power that Jesus bought with his blood be able to take hold in our lives.

When we put the gospel into action in our lives each and every day, by dying out to sin, immersing ourselves in His blood, and living an overcoming life each and every day... it is then that we will begin to see the signs, wonders, and mighty works that the apostles saw in their day...

So yes... the gospel is enough... but if we want the POWER.... we must live out the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus each and every day!
Signs and Wonders never saved anyone and if they had an influence would be useless if there was nobody around to WITNESS those signs and wonders.

That is why people use "gimmicks" to attract attention

Paul used a gimmick when he used the specter of an idol dedicated to the Unknown god of the Pagans. He got their attention, then preached Christ.
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Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #12  
Old 04-01-2013, 01:11 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Signs and Wonders never saved anyone and if they had an influence would be useless if there was nobody around to WITNESS those signs and wonders.

That is why people use "gimmicks" to attract attention

Paul used a gimmick when he used the specter of an idol dedicated to the Unknown god of the Pagans. He got their attention, then preached Christ.
Ok Prax, have it your way. Keep your gimmicks and your tricks, shows and entertainment. Let me know how many lives are truly changed and transformed using those methods. Sure it gets them in the doors, and they get to hear the gospel message. Yet I wonder how many souls truly become sold out to Jesus, experiencing the death, burial and resurrection message of the gospel coming to them this way.

May I show you a better way?

A life completely transformed, committed, and surrendered to the Lord begins to witness to every person he/she meets, on the street, at the grocery store, in the bank, doctor's office and hospital, begins sharing the love of Jesus, spreading the love and hope of the gospel everywhere they go.

This was the way of the apostles. They spread the gospel everywhere they went, on every street corner, to every soul that would listen, and it got them thrown into jail. It got them beaten. It had some of them hiding in a locked house fearing for their lives. It got them shipwrecked and homeless. It wasn't a popular message they preached. But, their ministry turned the world upside down! They didn't use giveaways, (remember Peter said... silver and gold have I none...)... they just brought Jesus to the people.

I truly believe that each one of us were we to truly begin to minister using the apostle's examples, that the greatest revival would break out in our country, without the need for gimmicks, shows and entertainment. We don't need counterfeit gospels, we need souls who have surrendered and sold out completely to Jesus, and then we WILL see revival, the kind of revival that the NT church had.

My soul hungers, and desires for that Prax. That is the kind of true revival I am seeking, and longing for. And I am spending time on my knees asking the Lord to direct my path everywhere I go, to every person I meet, that HE would minister through me, and that I would be HIS vessel. This is the gospel message I love, and want to see in action!

Recently the Lord began dealing with me about a hobby that is very near and dear to my heart. I have such a collection that it boggles my mind to come into the room and look at it. The Lord recently asked me if I was willing to surrender my all to Him. Of course, I said yes.

Then, He asked me if I was willing to give up my hobby. I hesitated. I have thousands of dollars invested in it. Why in the world would he want me to give this up? Yet, now every time I pray, I know that is exactly what HE is asking me to do. Why? I don't know. I don't even have any interest in that hobby anymore. It is all collecting dust. The one thing that draws me now more than anything is HIM and just spending time with Him, and reading the word, and sharing Jesus with everyone I meet.

Yet, I have begun to obey the Lord in this. My hobby is not a sin, and it has brought many wonderful people into my life. But now, I must get rid of it! That hurts.

But, you see, I am willing Prax. I am willing to give up whatever the Lord asks me for whatever reason He does, because I am trusting Him that He has a greater plan and purpose for it all, than what I can see.

I don't want gimmicks, shows, entertainment, and counterfeit things. I want the gospel, the death, the burial, and the resurrection life. If I want to share in his resurrection power, then I must surrender all that He asks of me. I am willing to do that. The gospel is worth any surrender on my part.
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  #13  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:06 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Since we preach the gospel, lots are changed and transformed.

Using 'gimmicks' to gather a crowd to hear the gospel worked for the day of Pentecost. It worked for Paul. It works for us.
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #14  
Old 04-01-2013, 03:26 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Sigh. Have it your way Prax. God bless you. Although I have no idea what "gimmicks" you are referring to that were used on the Day of Pentecost...
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  #15  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:22 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Sigh. Have it your way Prax. God bless you. Although I have no idea what "gimmicks" you are referring to that were used on the Day of Pentecost...
Gathering for the outpouring in a place that the public could hear about what had happened and thus gather a group to hear a gospel message
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #16  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:25 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Hmm. So they sent out flyers and brochures to all four corners of the city to tell everyone to be there on that day (when they didn't even known WHAT was going to happen or when it was going to happen!) sounds a little over the top to me Prax, quite a stretch... but believe it that way if you choose.
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  #17  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:30 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Hmm. So they sent out flyers and brochures to all four corners of the city to tell everyone to be there on that day (when they didn't even known WHAT was going to happen or when it was going to happen!) sounds a little over the top to me Prax, quite a stretch... but believe it that way if you choose.
lying about what someone said is not going to help you spread the gospel.

What I said was they gathered in a location that was public enough that others heard it and spread what had happened to others nearby.

Please don't do that again
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #18  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:31 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Hmm. So they sent out flyers and brochures to all four corners of the city to tell everyone to be there on that day (when they didn't even known WHAT was going to happen or when it was going to happen!) sounds a little over the top to me Prax, quite a stretch... but believe it that way if you choose.
What makes you believe they did not know what would happen?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:53 PM
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KeptByTheWord KeptByTheWord is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Since we preach the gospel, lots are changed and transformed.

Using 'gimmicks' to gather a crowd to hear the gospel worked for the day of Pentecost. It worked for Paul. It works for us.
I asked you then, what "gimmick did they use on the Day of Pentecost... your answer was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
Gathering for the outpouring in a place that the public could hear about what had happened and thus gather a group to hear a gospel message

Ok, fine. So we established that it was the Day of Pentecost that we were discussing. Then, I made an exaggerated modern-day claim of what could have taken place (I guess I should have used (") to make it more clear that this was more of a allegory than an actual reference, but I thought it was clear enough).

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord View Post
Hmm. So they sent out flyers and brochures to all four corners of the city to tell everyone to be there on that day (when they didn't even known WHAT was going to happen or when it was going to happen!) sounds a little over the top to me Prax, quite a stretch... but believe it that way if you choose.
Then your response....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
lying about what someone said is not going to help you spread the gospel.

What I said was they gathered in a location that was public enough that others heard it and spread what had happened to others nearby.

Please don't do that again
I don't think I "lied" here Prax. I was simply exaggerating if you will in a modern-day sense of the application. So, I can't use "modern-day" references here, that offends you? Well... I'm sorry, really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
What makes you believe they did not know what would happen?
And what I said about the Day of Pentecost... those gathered in the upper room really didn't know what day it was coming, or what was coming, but they knew SOMETHING was coming. There is no way they could have broadcast to the people around that on the Day of Pentecost something was going to happen. They just knew they had to wait on it.

It just so happened that it was a festival time in the city and thousands of people were there because of the Day of Pentecost, to celebrate in the festivities. Jesus chose to pour out His spirit on that day... and they had no clue what or how it was going to be. They were just waiting. Just wondering how that was a "gimmick" (a modern day reference for clarification)....
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  #20  
Old 04-01-2013, 04:58 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Isn't The Gospel Enough?

How do you know they did not know? Just repeating your assertion is not proof.

BTW did God know?
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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