Why we are not "Saved" (crack this box open...)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

we just don't believe everyones different views on the ease of achieving salvation.... what's that mean, were just different (misfits), and still have much to learn for ourselves.

Ease of achieving salvation?

On the one hand, he that has ceased from HIS OWN WORKS enters into rest.

On the other hand, STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIGHT GATE.

It's so easy it's hard for most (myself included).

No man shall be justified by works, for all of us have already been condemned by the law of God as sinners (lawbreakers).

Thus we must find another way to be justified. And thus God gives GRACE (pardon and undeserved favour).

Christ was made to be sin for us. Therefore, if we BELIEVE that, and throw ourselves upon God's mercy, and TRUST GOD TO FULFILL HIS WORD on the basis - not of our righteousness, but of Christ's death and resurrection - we will be saved.

The apostle said 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household.'

Our faith must rest in Him and His Work, not in us and our works.

If our faith truly rests in Him and His Work, then He will, in us, DO HIS WORK. And may we all arrive at the point where we can honestly say 'it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me'.

The chosen of God are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. We are predestined by God to think like Jesus, understand things the way He does, and live as He did in this world - a life manifesting the very nature of God through our weak flesh.

God became man that man might become God, as some have said in the misty past. In other words, God took on our nature, so that we might partake of His nature.

God is building a family, literally.

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by n david

Sorry, I read the part in bold above, which says you desperately were praying for a sign. That's what I would call seeking for a sign.

Yes & we received them, but after the fact... I never said I wasn't praying for a sign, and to say that God (who can do anything, even what we cannot possibly conceive) doesn't answer prayers from time to time is something I'm not interested in arguing over.

We could argue this, but nothing said here nor quoted from any scripture could change the past, which is yes we received signs, we've had 8 now to date (5years) that to us were confirmed. I don't care if means I got booted from this awesome forum, or anything else, nothing could change or install doubt in what it was.

Even if saying this in front of the whole Church we are visiting meant we have to go, even though we got signs we have something to learn there, then all that would mean is that we've then learned what it was we were to learn.

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ease of achieving salvation?

That was a very good write up


When I say the ease of salvation, this is not aimed at all or maybe even 1/2 of those that claim Christian. I know there are those out there that are Christian, by our definition, and to those that have such discipline, perhaps you understand what I'm saying even if you do not believe (which is fine, again, it's what we believe, and beliefs are simply that, they are not precise facts and they change greatly or slightly based on what we learn).

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

That was a very good write up


When I say the ease of salvation, this is not aimed at all or maybe even 1/2 of those that claim Christian. I know there are those out there that are Christian, by our definition, and to those that have such discipline, perhaps you understand what I'm saying even if you do not believe (which is fine, again, it's what we believe, and beliefs are simply that, they are not precise facts and they change greatly or slightly based on what we learn).

I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. You mention 'christian by our definition', and include 'those that have such discipline'.

Are you saying that a 'Christian' then involves a certain amount of 'discipline'? Things like 'take up your cross, deny yourself', that sort of stuff?

Are you talking about entire sanctification?

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Esaias

I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. You mention 'christian by our definition', and include 'those that have such discipline'.

Are you saying that a 'Christian' then involves a certain amount of 'discipline'? Things like 'take up your cross, deny yourself', that sort of stuff?

Are you talking about entire sanctification?

By "our definition" I mean how myself & Miss Misfit see it, not all God Fearers or Christians.

What is a Christian by our definition you ask? < If that is what you are asking...<
One that lives by what he believes and what he testifies to, and is truly saved and not simply claiming it. Everyone is different, so there is NO exact ground rules in my book, and no one is perfect. It is a rare thing that we've found those that honestly do this, even behind closed doors. What is often found is those that might be God Fearing or not, but based on different factors are clearly putting on a front for many different reasons claiming Christian.

I don't want this to go into judging, as I'm not, I'm being factual. Becoming a Christian (to us) takes time, scriptural knowledge, discipline, respect, patience.... all things we still need more of & I'm sure more things we are not even aware of due to the lack in the list above.

If we leave here before we reach that point of being able to fully understand and commit to the works of God's teaching thru Christ, then we both will be placed before The Judge and only then we will truly know our fate.


.. but then we are not anything to a scholar or even a first year preacher or even granny, so how do we know we're right... we don't.... all one can know is what he has learned to be truth.... and again we have a lot of learning to do

[houston]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

I once asked for a sign and behold, the juniper bushes brought forth juniper berries!

You are a dork!

[Truthseeker]

If your saved, your saved now.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by NewbieMisfits

By "our definition" I mean how myself & Miss Misfit see it, not all God Fearers or Christians.

What is a Christian by our definition you ask? < If that is what you are asking...<
One that lives by what he believes and what he testifies to, and is truly saved and not simply claiming it. Everyone is different, so there is NO exact ground rules in my book, and no one is perfect. It is a rare thing that we've found those that honestly do this, even behind closed doors. What is often found is those that might be God Fearing or not, but based on different factors are clearly putting on a front for many different reasons claiming Christian.

I don't want this to go into judging, as I'm not, I'm being factual. Becoming a Christian (to us) takes time, scriptural knowledge, discipline, respect, patience.... all things we still need more of & I'm sure more things we are not even aware of due to the lack in the list above.

If we leave here before we reach that point of being able to fully understand and commit to the works of God's teaching thru Christ, then we both will be placed before The Judge and only then we will truly know our fate.


.. but then we are not anything to a scholar or even a first year preacher or even granny, so how do we know we're right... we don't.... all one can know is what he has learned to be truth.... and again we have a lot of learning to do

Hmm... I don't see how a person can be a 'God fearer' and not be living for God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is also to hate all evil. One cannot hate all evil if they still play with it, can they?

I would say your definition of a Christian is pretty much Biblical. A Christian is one who truly has been regenerated, and who truly is led by the Spirit, and who truly is living for God (ie God is truly living in their life).

I do believe sometimes Christians backslide, in which case they are disobedient Christians. And I do believe if they die in that condition they will be lost.

But I also believe if they have truly been regenerated, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY they will persist in backsliding. If God can drag a sinner kicking and screaming to a place of repentance (as in my case), then surely he can draw a wayward son or daughter back to a place of right standing.

Anyways, I agree - there are too many play-actors and not enough real-deal believers. And I confess there have been times I have been both, to my own shame.

But God leads His dear children along, sometimes putting hooks in their jaws...

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Ease of achieving salvation?

On the one hand, he that has ceased from HIS OWN WORKS enters into rest.

On the other hand, STRIVE TO ENTER IN AT THE STRAIGHT GATE.

It's so easy it's hard for most (myself included).

No man shall be justified by works, for all of us have already been condemned by the law of God as sinners (lawbreakers).

Thus we must find another way to be justified. And thus God gives GRACE (pardon and undeserved favour).

Christ was made to be sin for us. Therefore, if we BELIEVE that, and throw ourselves upon God's mercy, and TRUST GOD TO FULFILL HIS WORD on the basis - not of our righteousness, but of Christ's death and resurrection - we will be saved.

The apostle said 'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy household.'

Our faith must rest in Him and His Work, not in us and our works.

If our faith truly rests in Him and His Work, then He will, in us, DO HIS WORK. And may we all arrive at the point where we can honestly say 'it is not I who live, but Christ who lives in me'.

The chosen of God are predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son. We are predestined by God to think like Jesus, understand things the way He does, and live as He did in this world - a life manifesting the very nature of God through our weak flesh.

God became man that man might become God, as some have said in the misty past. In other words, God took on our nature, so that we might partake of His nature.

God is building a family, literally.

Very well said!

[NewbieMisfits]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hmm... I don't see how a person can be a 'God fearer' and not be living for God. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. It is also to hate all evil. One cannot hate all evil if they still play with it, can they?
..

Very good write up, well said!

As to whats above...

I am a God fearing man, this fear also brings with it being quite scared of not being right with Him. With this, I strive to do right, I strive good works, I strive to respect Him through putting as much discipline into my daily decision as my maturity with Him allows.

Compared to the average of claiming Christians we know, we would assume we are well above par, but who are we judge others, but we can judge ourselves... but "we" still feel we have a ways to go to be able to receive salvation thru the Holy Ghost and honestly be a true Christian.

You are right about evil and still playing with evil & I agree, however, in sinning, many times you don't see the sin in the act until further evaluation or education.
Much like your drivers license:
You know it is bad from the get go to drive down the other lane, Your gut tells you it's bad to drive over the speed limit sign, but unless you read the book and learn all the smaller laws you have no idea what a round-a-bout is, or how to handle it until after you've gone thru it & then you can better understand it...... Hope that came across right