Hell and Mr. Fudge Movie

[Michael The Disciple]

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

Your getting there Michael, just keep and open mind, and the Spirit will guide you......! LOL

[Disciple4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CevhPd3-Ro8

This guy says they are taking hell out of the bible.

[Luke]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Anyone ever noticed Apostle Paul only mentioned "Hell" one time? And the one time he did Christians were the ones who had been in it?

Jesus, John, Jude, and Peter talk about it for the sinner and they don't seem to have got the memo that it is only temporary.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Luke

Jesus, John, Jude, and Peter talk about it for the sinner and they don't seem to have got the memo that it is only temporary.

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

[Carl]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I know Jesus mention Gehenna (Hell) as a place where souls can be DESTROYED.

This opened my eyes to the truth about eternal judgment.

Don’t be afraid of those who kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul. Rather, fear him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna.

The wages of sin is death that lasts forever.

So, you essentially believe the "annihilationist" teaching then. Instead of eternal torment, you understand scripture to mean that there will be a final death for the unbeliever.

I believe I see and understand it that way, too.

Was reading in Psalms last night, with many, many references to the soul that believeth will live forever, while the wicked die a certain death. The Lord saves the believer from death.

This verse here: Psalms 49:20 "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish."

Essentially this verse is saying that unbelievers will perish as the beasts that die. Their soul will not live on, but will perish.

Psalms 33:18 "Behold the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; to deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine."

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

So, you essentially believe the "annihilationist" teaching then. Instead of eternal torment, you understand scripture to mean that there will be a final death for the unbeliever.

I believe I see and understand it that way, too.

Was reading in Psalms last night, with many, many references to the soul that believeth will live forever, while the wicked die a certain death. The Lord saves the believer from death.

This verse here: Psalms 49:20 "Man that is in honour, and understandeth not, is like the beasts that perish."

Essentially this verse is saying that unbelievers will perish as the beasts that die. Their soul will not live on, but will perish.

Psalms 33:18 "Behold the eye of the Lord is upon them that fear him, upon them that hope in his mercy; to deliver their soul from death, and to keep them alive in famine."

Exactly! The most famous verse in the Bible teaches this.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:16

The contrast is between perishing "death" and having eternal life.

The Lake Of Fire is the INSTRUMENT OF DESTRUCTION.

I believe some will be there longer than others. None will come out alive.

It is the Biblical doctrine of eternal judgment. Death lasts forever after the judgment.

An 18 year old who got drunk the first time hit a wall and killed himself will not be given immortality. Neither will he spend trillions upon unending trillions of years engulfed in flames. And then according to the doctrine that is just the beginning of how long they will be tormented.

[Michael The Disciple]

Allow me to build a bit of foundation. We see in the gospels both Yeshua and John the Baptist preaching about punishment of fire for the wicked. The big question is where did they get the doctrine? If we can find their REFERENCE POINT we will understand their meaning. The last Prophet before Yeshua and John was MALACHI. I believe much of their doctrine in this matter is referenced back to him.

For behold the DAY cometh that shall BURN AS AN OVEN: and all the proud yea and all THAT DO WICKEDLY shall be STUBBLE: and the DAY that cometh shall BURN THEM UP saith the Lord of Hosts, that it shall leave them NEITHER ROOT NOR BRANCH. But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of Righteousness arise with healing in his wings and you shall go forth and grow up as calves of the stall. And ye shall tread down the wicked for they shall be ASHES UNDER THE SOLES OF YOUR FEET in the day that I shall do this saith the Lord of Hosts. MALACHI 4:1-3

Notice Malachi's emphasis is on THE DESTRUCTION OF THE WICKED. Keeping this in mind lets go to the gospels and visit the teaching of Yeshua and John.

And now also the ax is laid to the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not good fruit is hewn down and cast into the fire. John the Baptist in Matt.3:10

The enemy that sowed them is the devil: the harvest is the end of the world: and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the TARES are gathered and BURNED IN THE FIRE so shall it be in the end of this world. Matt.13:39-40

So shall it be at the end of the world the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them INTO THE FURNACE OF FIRE: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matt.13:49-50

Whose fan is in his hand and he will thoroughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner, but THE CHAFF HE WILL BURN with fire unquenchable. John in Luke 3:17

Now my question is where did Yeshua and John get the concepts of the FURNACE OF FIRE? Was it not the same as Malachi's Fiery OVEN?
How about the concept of THE TARES and THE CHAFF? Is it not the same as Malachi's STUBBLE? If they are indeed referring back to Malachi his prophetic words carried the message of the DESTRUCTION OF THE WICKED as opposed to their never ending torment.

This harmonizes with what God had already declared to be the punishment of sin.

Behold all souls are mine, as the soul of the father so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul THAT SINNETH IT SHALL DIE. Ezekiel 18:4

If Yeshua and John were not referring back to Malachi, where was their reference point?

And fear not them which KILL the body but are not able to KILL the soul: but rather fear him which is able to DESTROY both SOUL AND BODY IN HELL. Matt.10:28

It was no doubt the destruction of the wicked in Malachi's OVEN Yeshua had in mind.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Carl

Michael, I've always heard the passage in Mark chapter 9, verses 42-48, which says "Where their worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." as proof that gehenna and thus punishment is forever. Any thoughts or opinions on this?

And if thy hand offend thee cut it off:it is better for thee to enter into life maimed than having two hands to go into hell into the FIRE THAT NEVER SHALL BE QUENCHED: Where their worm dieth not and the FIRE IS NOT QUENCHED. Mark 9:43-44

Can we find an Old Testament reference for this?
If so we can understand his meaning.

The reference here goes back to Isaiah 66.

For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before me saith the Lord so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one sabbath to another shall all flesh come to worship before me saith the Lord.
And they shall go forth and look upon the carcasses of the men that have TRANSGRESSED against me: for their worm shall not die neither shall their FIRE BE QUENCHED. And they shall be an abhoring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:22-24

This is the ONLY OTHER REFERENCE POINT for hell that I know of in the Old Testament.

The hell Yeshua speaks of in Mark 9 is GEHENNA. This was a garbage dump outside Jerusalem.

All of the trash as well as bodies of criminals were thrown into it.
In course of time the Jews connected Gehenna with the FIRE OVEN of MALACHI.
The CARCASSES Isaiah speaks of are DEAD BODIES! A CARCASSE is the remains of a dead body.

People living in the coming kingdom will periodically look out on this sight of the TRANSGRESSORS who had to be destroyed as a solemn warning against sin.

The worm that dieth not is simply showing worms can live off CARCASSES.
Let us look at the phrase FIRE SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED in biblical context.

But if you will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day and not to bear a burden even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day, then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof and it shall DEVOUR the palaces of Jerusalem and IT SHALL NOT BE QUENCHED. Jer.17:27

The Chaldeans came and burned the city. Jer.39:8
Is that unquenchable FIRE still burning today?

The FIRE THAT SHALL NOT BE QUENCED means NOTHING can put it out.
But when it finishes the job God gives it to do it will go out of itself.

So again this biblical reference about hell teaches us of the DESTRUCTION of the wicked.
Their CARCASSES shall remain.