What does believing ______ profit?

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Reader

Would your questions be better framed as "What does debating about...."?

Nope. My point goes deeper than being about debating those topics. Actually I feel a slight bit of debate on such topics is fine. What I am talking about is people getting so worked up and making some of the above things salvational when in the grand scheme the things I've listed and many others make no real practical difference in serving God or overcoming Sin or anything else... the only thing these beliefs are about is worshipping "truth" as a god.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

The seriousness of finding the "truth" can be likened to a simple definition of Idolatry....
(Idolatry is a concept that we may have of God, but it may not be God at all...at that point it has become our imaginary god).

Either us oneness or the trinitarians are serving an IMAGINARY god. That makes this a critical issue to get to the bottom of.

These debates are the prefect will of God, since the Apostles are dead and nobody is here "officially" to vindicate our beliefs.

If you say it matters whether your oneness or trinitarian then your god is the idol "truth" and not God almighty himself.

[Reader]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I'm saying seeking truth for the sole sake of truth turns "truth" into your God and not the Almighty himself.

I agree that one should first seek God. In seeking God, God will reveal the things a person needs to know.

but if the belief ultimately doesn't have any benefit rather than being right then why are you soo concerned with it? Unless "truth" is more a God to you than God almighty himself.

I see what you are after. For some, some of the things you listed are held to as matters of salvation and that would be how they profit them.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Reader

I agree that one should first seek God. In seeking God, God will reveal the things a person needs to know.



I see what you are after. For some, some of the things you listed are held to as matters of salvation and that would be how they profit them.

Repentance profits by turning away from your sins and towards jesus. Baptism profits by giving us a clean conscience. Even receiving the Holy Spirit profits us in many spiritual ways.

Maybe some of the things I listed do give some benefit.

However many do not, like:

Oneness vs trinity? Jesus is God vs Jesus is not God? Preterism vs Dispensationalism?

I say we judge the importance of a belief by it's benefit to us in our walk with God and with bringing sinners to Jesus. If the belief in question isn't important when it comes to those things then we shouldnt be very worried about it.

[shazeep]

(ya, but it makes us feel better! )

Originally Posted by jfrog

Ah yes.... the believing in a false God claim. You've turned oneness into a salvation issue... but why? Does it have any impact on anything else in your life? Does it have any impact on anything else to do with your religion?

If believing in oneness over the trinity is sooo important why doesn't the belief in oneness make oneness apostolics better people and better Christians?

hearhear. chasing after wind.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by jfrog

If you say it matters whether your oneness or trinitarian then your god is the idol "truth" and not God almighty himself.

dang, a double play! you have now 'defined' God

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by shazeep

dang, a double play! you have now 'defined' God

LOL. I can't tell if your mocking me or agreeing and what's worse is that I feel that's by your design...

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by jfrog

LOL. I can't tell if your mocking me or agreeing and what's worse is that I feel that's by your design...

ah no, that's just bad communication...agreeing with you. "Triune God" or "One God" are merely completely pointless , and even satanic attempts to define God, when He is prolly both of those, and seven fold, to. It is an attempt to approach God with your understanding. It is a man's attempt to approach God, instead of accepting Grace through Christ. imo.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by shazeep

ah no, that's just bad communication...agreeing with you. "Triune God" or "One God" are merely completely pointless , and even satanic attempts to define God, when He is prolly both of those, and seven fold, to. It is an attempt to approach God with your understanding. It is a man's attempt to approach God, instead of accepting Grace through Christ. imo.

Satanic may be too harsh. I think many mean well. Musing over how jesus can be God at the same time as having a God and Jesus' and his God's relationship isn't bad or evil. It's just that when the explanation of that relationship becomes more salvational than love your neighbor and love your enemy and feeding the poor and preaching Jesus the son of God and him crucified and resurrected then something is amiss.

I think we should be concerned with the things God is concerned with and if our concerns are elsewhere then somethings amiss. Truth itself is fine and good but idolizing truth is bad. God is truth but searching after truth for truth's sake is not what God is concerned with. He's concerned with the lost. He's concerned with those trying to live for him. He's concerned for the hungry. He's concerned for the needy. He's concerned with the broken. He's concerned with us living right. He's concerned with true holiness.

I think we should always ask ourselves, is God concerned with this? And if God's not very concerned with it then we need to ask, why am I? I think God's most concerned with the things that profit us and that allow us to be a profit to someone else. Don't you?

The gospel isn't about truth for truth's sake. It isn't about having the right set of core beliefs so we can be saved. It's not about belief at all other than belief in God and Jesus. The gospel starts off telling us what Christ has done for us and it ends with a question: what will you do for Christ?

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Satanic may be too harsh. I think many mean well. Musing over how jesus can be God at the same time as having a God and Jesus' and his God's relationship isn't bad or evil. It's just that when the explanation of that relationship becomes more salvational than love your neighbor and love your enemy and feeding the poor and preaching Jesus the son of God and him crucified and resurrected then something is amiss.

I think we should be concerned with the things God is concerned with and if our concerns are elsewhere then somethings amiss. Truth itself is fine and good but idolizing truth is bad. God is truth but searching after truth for truth's sake is not what God is concerned with. He's concerned with the lost. He's concerned with those trying to live for him. He's concerned for the hungry. He's concerned for the needy. He's concerned with the broken. He's concerned with us living right. He's concerned with true holiness.

I think we should always ask ourselves, is God concerned with this? And if God's not very concerned with it then we need to ask, why am I? I think God's most concerned with the things that profit us and that allow us to be a profit to someone else. Don't you?

The gospel isn't about truth for truth's sake. It isn't about having the right set of core beliefs so we can be saved. It's not about belief at all other than belief in God and Jesus. The gospel starts off telling us what Christ has done for us and it ends with a question: what will you do for Christ?

JFrog, I agree with you here. Getting caught up in the rights and wrongs of a doctrine, detracts from the bigger picture of following Christ, and being His disciple. If we are truly following Christ, the humbleness of heart that we take on as we emulate and walk after Him, will begin to reveal many things to us that are not true, both about ourselves, others, and the doctrines we believe.

The saddest thing that can happen to a disciple of Christ is to become content in the place where he found Him, and to believe that one can stay there forever. It doesn't work that way. We are pilgrims and strangers in this world, and we should not be in the same place we were when we first received Christ. Being a disciple is a journey.

Truth is Jesus. Truth is not a doctrine or a belief system, a church group, an organization, or a group of people believing something.

Truth is following Jesus with humbleness of heart and mind, realizing that we will always have limited knowledge that we humans are able to possess, and understand about our unlimited, and unfathomable Creator.