Are Christians Resonsible For Wars?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

While I agree with most of the article I would like to point out that some of these individuals were religious.

Shinbutsu-shūgō was the religion of Hideki Tojo, while Pol Pot was a Theravada Buddhist, he studied at a Buddhist monastery. Also in one of his speeches on Democracy calling Buddha his leader. Joseph Stalin was raised Russian Orthodox in the home of a Russian priest, he attended Eastern Greek Orthodox seminary in order to join the priesthood. While Stalin would denounce Christianity in his youth. The biographer Edvard Radzinsky in his book Stalin: The First In-depth Biography Based on Explosive New Documents from Russia's Secret Archives, notes that “During his mysterious retreat (of June 1941) the ex-seminarist had decided to involve the aid of the God he had rejected.” Vladimir Lenin had strong Jewish roots, and always admired the Jewish religion, his thoughts on Christianity is well known. Mao Zedong was raised in a very devout Buddhist home of wealthy aristocrats, while he is known for his one statement that "atheism must take the place of God" you have to keep in mind that Buddhism doesn't have a god, but Mao was also quoted as saying that "it is wrong to tell people to be against religion.” So, there's your quandary concerning Mao.

Now, last but not least, Mr Adolf Hitler the Godzilla which everyone picks when you need a bad example. Adolf Hitler should not be a choice when you want to prove that Non-religious leaders kill more than religious leaders. Hitler was a Catholic, he also went as far to incorporate the Nationalist Socialist Party into the German Church calling it Deutsche Christen which symbol was a Christian cross with swastika in the middle. Books on this topic are The Aryan Jesus: Christian Theologians and the Bible in Nazi Germany, by Susannah Heschel, and The Holy Reich: Nazi Conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945 By Richard Steigmann-Gall.

Adolf Hitler in a speech in 1922 remarked, “My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Saviour as a fighter…”

In his autobiography Mein Kampf, Hitler stated:

Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.

Please I don't want to take away from Sean's post, but just trying to merely point out that when having a discussion how these individuals (especially Hitler) were non-religious you might not have such a strong argument. If anything all these men were raised in heavily religious homes and cultures, and another argument that could be posed is that their upbringing still had to have some strong influence in their later years even if they weren't practicing their religion (as in the case of Mao Zedong.

If you think Hitler was a Catholic, you need to get your facts straight. The dude was a straight up psycho. Same with Pol Pot or Mao. If I claim to be pentecostal and I am a MASS MURDERER, would you call me religious, or some nut job? You are NOTHING in reality unless you PRACTICE your beliefs' tenets.

[Monterrey]

Oh yes, I definently believe a rock and roll artist's concept of Christianity!!!!

Very very deep theology here!!!

[Abiding Now]

War? Christians? The guy evidently visited AFF and read the ALL TRINITARIANS ARE LOST thread.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

If you think Hitler was a Catholic, you need to get your facts straight. The dude was a straight up psycho. Same with Pol Pot or Mao. If I claim to be pentecostal and I am a MASS MURDERER, would you call me religious, or some nut job? You are NOTHING in reality unless you PRACTICE your beliefs' tenets.

There is alot of doubt that Hitler was actually a Christian. So I don't think he really was at that time in his life.

But then again Sean, I'd say that if you went out and gunned down a bunch of people tomorrow that most would not remember you as a Christian either. Especially considering many of your non orthodox beliefs.

So while I'm 95% comfortable agreeing that hitler was not a Christian I think we all need to be honest and admit that Christianity has a habit of denouncing anyone as a Christian who does something bad.

If you are a public figure and cheat on your wife you are no longer a Christian.
If you are a public official and make a policy decision that results in someone dying then you are not a Christian.
If you are a public official and take alot of bribes then you are not a Christian.
.........

And this list goes on and on.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Myth that Religion is the #1 Cause of War
by Robin Schumacher
edited by Matt Slick

Atheists and secular humanists consistently make the claim that religion is the #1 cause of violence and war throughout the history of mankind. One of hatetheism's key cheerleaders, Sam Harris, says in his book The End of Faith that faith and religion are “the most prolific source of violence in our history.”1

While there’s no denying that campaigns such as the Crusades and the Thirty Years’ War foundationally rested on religious ideology, it is simply incorrect to assert that religion has been the primary cause of war. Moreover, although there’s also no disagreement that radical Islam was the spirit behind 9/11, it is a fallacy to say that all faiths contribute equally where religiously-motivated violence and warfare are concerned.

An interesting source of truth on the matter is Philip and Axelrod’s three-volume Encyclopedia of Wars, which chronicles some 1,763 wars that have been waged over the course of human history. Of those wars, the authors categorize 123 as being religious in nature,2 which is an astonishingly low 6.98% of all wars. However, when one subtracts out those waged in the name of Islam (66), the percentage is cut by more than half to 3.23%.

religious wars bar chart



religious wars pie chart

That means that all faiths combined – minus Islam – have caused less than 4% of all of humanity’s wars and violent conflicts. Further, they played no motivating role in the major wars that have resulted in the most loss of life.

Kind of puts a serious dent into Harris’ argument, doesn’t it?

The truth is, non-religious motivations and naturalistic philosophies bear the blame for nearly all of humankind’s wars. Lives lost during religious conflict pales in comparison to those experienced during the regimes who wanted nothing to do with the idea of God – something showcased in R. J. Rummel’s work Lethal Politics and Death by Government:

Non-Religious Dictator Lives Lost

Joseph Stalin - 42,672,000
Mao Zedong - 37,828,000
Adolf Hitler - 20,946,000
Chiang Kai-shek - 10,214,000
Vladimir Lenin - 4,017,000
Hideki Tojo - 3,990,000
Pol Pot - 2,397,0003
Rummel says: “Almost 170 million men, women and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed or killed in any other of a myriad of ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not germs.”4

The historical evidence is quite clear: Religion is not the #1 cause of war.

If religion can’t be blamed for most wars and violence, then what is the primary cause? The same thing that triggers all crime, cruelty, loss of life, and other such things. Jesus provides the answer very clearly: “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man,” (Mark 7:21–23).

James (naturally) agrees with Christ when he says: “What is the source of quarrels and conflicts among you? Is not the source your pleasures that wage war in your members? You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel,” (James 4:1–2).

In the end, the evidence shows that the atheists are quite wrong about the wars they claim to so desperately despise. Sin is the #1 cause of war and violence, not religion, and certainly not Christianity.

I think the book in question assumes religion can be separated from morals and a societies world views and ethics and justifications for war. Is religion a direct cause of most every war? Probably not. However, religion is there in the background in everything. It's a part of society that influences every other aspect of people and society. How much of the influence for our wars was a result of religion?

The american civil war? Fought over slavery and states rights and a few other minor things. How much did Christianity influence whether that war took place? I think quite a bit. Don't you?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

There is alot of doubt that Hitler was actually a Christian. So I don't think he really was at that time in his life.

But then again Sean, I'd say that if you went out and gunned down a bunch of people tomorrow that most would not remember you as a Christian either. Especially considering many of your non orthodox beliefs.

So while I'm 95% comfortable agreeing that hitler was not a Christian I think we all need to be honest and admit that Christianity has a habit of denouncing anyone as a Christian who does something bad.

If you are a public figure and cheat on your wife you are no longer a Christian.
If you are a public official and make a policy decision that results in someone dying then you are not a Christian.
If you are a public official and take alot of bribes then you are not a Christian.
.........

And this list goes on and on.

Amen, If I did any resemblance of that evil stuff tomorrow, I am not a Christian but a BACKSLIDER and OF THE DEVIL... There is no such thing as a Christian backslider or a Christian devil.....1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.



Again, these wicked men were not following any religious tenets....they were of SATAN. They came to KILL,STEAL and DESTROY

[Sean]

Originally Posted by jfrog

I think the book in question assumes religion can be separated from morals and a societies world views and ethics and justifications for war. Is religion a direct cause of most every war? Probably not. However, religion is there in the background in everything. It's a part of society that influences every other aspect of people and society. How much of the influence for our wars was a result of religion?

The american civil war? Fought over slavery and states rights and a few other minor things. How much did Christianity influence whether that war took place? I think quite a bit. Don't you?

Not really, it was an ethical thing. I think most folks happened to be religious, but they were not shouting..."Jesus will help us kill our southern brothers"...This was a divided country over ethics, not religion. It was UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO OWN SLAVES

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

Amen, If I did any resemblance of that evil stuff tomorrow, I am not a Christian but a BACKSLIDER and OF THE DEVIL... There is no such thing as a Christian backslider or a Christian devil.....1 John 3:8

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.



Again, these wicked men were not following any religious tenets....they were of SATAN. They came to KILL,STEAL and DESTROY

Thanks and that's the problem I'm pointing out. A Christian by your definition can never do something horrible. It's simply impossible by definition. Then again a persons true Christian status can never really be ascertained in your view either. So since the definition is so retroactive why even bother trying to label someone as a Christian? Wouldn't the label professing Christian illuminate everything much better and then we could have God alone dictate who was a Christian on judgment day as it seems fitting for your definition of Christian?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Rock Star Tom Petty:



While he was specifically talking about Catholics, in general he blames "religion" for wars.

We always here this from the world.

Can anyone name what wars were started by Christians?

Short answer...yes

Long answer is not so clear. It's not religion. It's religious leaders or Political leaders who use religion and the gullibility of the general believers to wage wars and other things

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by Sean

Not really, it was an ethical thing. I think most folks happened to be religious, but they were not shouting..."Jesus will help us kill our southern brothers"...This was a divided country over ethics, not religion. It was UNCONSTITUTIONAL TO OWN SLAVES

Ummmmmm.... It was not unconstitutional to own slaves at the time. In fact the constitution even addressed a slave as counting for 3/5 of a citizen for purposes of representation in the house of representatives. Slavery was quite constitutional at that time.