Is restitution necessary to be baptized(forgiven).

[Sean]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Well since I do not believe in the rapture, then it is not a big loss.

True....

[good samaritan]

How can you make restitution for all the things you've done wrong. I don't even know what all I have done wrong before coming to Christ. I have done so much. If you feel led to go to someone and make things right by all means do so, but we would go crazy feeling like we are to make a payment for our past mistakes.
If restitution was necessary we would be making our own sins right and that takes away from the purpose of Jesus on this earth. This doctrine is ludicrous. Some things should be left to personal convictions. I wouldn't want to be the one denying baptism from that person. Who are we to judge the sincerity of another person's repentance.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

How can you make restitution for all the things you've done wrong. I don't even know what all I have done wrong before coming to Christ. I have done so much. If you feel led to go to someone and make things right by all means do so, but we would go crazy feeling like we are to make a payment for our past mistakes.
If restitution was necessary we would be making our own sins right and that takes away from the purpose of Jesus on this earth. This doctrine is ludicrous. Some things should be left to personal convictions. I wouldn't want to be the one denying baptism from that person. Who are we to judge the sincerity of another person's repentance.

These folks teach "merited" repentance by the individual, not solely on the NAME of Jesus to remit sins. They are clearly mixing the old and new covenants together to come to this conclusion.

I wanted to do this thread to give folks an understanding about this subject, if in fact they encounter this doctrine.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

How can you make restitution for all the things you've done wrong.

Restitution as part of repentance is about making things right between you and those you have wronged. For example if you stole from someone and then repent, included in that repentance is paying back what you stole if possible. It also includes letting people you have wronged or hurt know that you own up to your misdeeds and that you are sorry and have repented. Obviously you can only do what you can do. Also it may be better in some cases to leave well enough alone if you are liable to make things worse by trying to make things right.

It is NOT about earning God's forgiveness. Real repentance according to Paul includes making a wrong situation right when possible.

Zacchaeus also understood this as well.

This is not about making a payment for wrongs. Why is it this keeps coming up in every discussion... this idea that if you are to do the right thing its somehow viewed as "paying for or earning grace or God's forgiveness?

Doing restitution does not take away from the work of the cross. If I steal from you and say "paying back the money I took from you would diminish Christ's work on the cross" would you not think I was just using that as an excuse to be a cheat?

As for judging the sincerity of another's repentance... if one comes to you seeking baptism is it not your duty to be certain in your own mind they are for real? Seems like common sense... unless one has a low view of baptism maybe?

Check this out -
http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/repentance.php

http://www.truediscipleship.com/Ques...uestions17.htm

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/...stitution.html

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Restitution as part of repentance is about making things right between you and those you have wronged. For example if you stole from someone and then repent, included in that repentance is paying back what you stole if possible. It also includes letting people you have wronged or hurt know that you own up to your misdeeds and that you are sorry and have repented. Obviously you can only do what you can do. Also it may be better in some cases to leave well enough alone if you are liable to make things worse by trying to make things right.

It is NOT about earning God's forgiveness. Real repentance according to Paul includes making a wrong situation right when possible.

Zacchaeus also understood this as well.

This is not about making a payment for wrongs. Why is it this keeps coming up in every discussion... this idea that if you are to do the right thing its somehow viewed as "paying for or earning grace or God's forgiveness?

Doing restitution does not take away from the work of the cross. If I steal from you and say "paying back the money I took from you would diminish Christ's work on the cross" would you not think I was just using that as an excuse to be a cheat?

As for judging the sincerity of another's repentance... if one comes to you seeking baptism is it not your duty to be certain in your own mind they are for real? Seems like common sense... unless one has a low view of baptism maybe?

Check this out -
http://www.gospelway.com/salvation/repentance.php

http://www.truediscipleship.com/Ques...uestions17.htm

http://www.giveshare.org/BibleStudy/...stitution.html

Brother, here is a couple hypothetical questions, but a real life situation at times.

If a man is sleeping with his neighbors' wife and he repents and gets baptized...should he be required to go and confess to his neighbor what he was doing before he is allowed to be baptized?

Or in the case of Charles Mahaney(now deceased)....he committed endless crimes and was only caught for a portion of them prior to his conversion. If he would have went in and confessed about all of his crimes(thousands). He would have spent his life in prison as a condition to be baptized.

His powerful ministry would have been non- existent.

Should he have gone in and confessed all of his crimes and just spent his life in prison, or should he just have been baptized like he was and accept the remission of his sins just like he did?(of course he would have never agreed to be baptized with the restitution stipulation)

[Esaias]

Like I said one should not make things worse trying to make things right. I am not certain "total restitution must precede baptism" for all known sins BUT one cannot utterly divorce restitution from repentance imo.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Like I said one should not make things worse trying to make things right. I am not certain "total restitution must precede baptism" for all known sins BUT one cannot utterly divorce restitution from repentance imo.

Shouldnt we just tell folks repent like this?.....Ps. 51, "againts thee and thee only have I sinned, that thou may be justified when thou speakest".

I believe only Jesus is my confessor, not man.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Sean

Shouldnt we just tell folks repent like this?.....Ps. 51, "againts thee and thee only have I sinned, that thou may be justified when thou speakest".

I believe only Jesus is my confessor, not man.

Matthew 5:23-24
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee,

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Matthew 5:23-24
Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee,

Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

This is "after" salvation, not "before". This was not an exhortation from Jesus about one sinner asking forgiveness from another...

It says "thy brother", implying they are both already saved.



Remember, this post is about pre-baptism(salvation) restitution.

[Esaias]

Seems to me Jesus is saying God expects to be reconciled to our fellow man as a condition of offering acceptable worship to Him.

The context btw is the temple service and thus not "among saints in the church".

Peter called unregenerate Jews "brothers" when preaching to them, so the term brother does not ONLY mean "fellow Christian."

In any event one shpuld make restitution when and where possible. And yes failure to make restitution when possible may hinder receiving from God.