Image of the Beast

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

I know, I know Mike, 666=N E R O.....LOL(been there, done that)



Better watch it, pastor febus is watching us...LOL

The thing about Nero and the issue of the number is that there is a manuscript that has 616 instead of 666. It is the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. Dated 3rd or early 4th century. It seems Latin versions intentionally used 616 because Nero's name in Latin has the numerical equivalent of 616 not 666. No other view can explain that.

You may have been there but you never done it since you never accepted it. lol Don't be so busy trying to promote a certain view at any cost rather than realize you may be offkey and God may be trying to correct you.

Anyway, John said the people in his day could count it, and that would not be the case if the name was not in existence in a person's life yet. So, please address the point that JOHN indicated someone IN HIS DAY could count the name proving it had to be someone at that time. You just blew it away as though I never said it. Don't gloss over this point in John's words.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The thing about Nero and the issue of the number is that there is a manuscript that has 616 instead of 666. It is the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. Dated 3rd or early 4th century. It seems Latin versions intentionally used 616 because Nero's name in Latin has the numerical equivalent of 616 not 666. No other view can explain that.

You may have been there but you never done it since you never accepted it. lol Don't be so busy trying to promote a certain view at any cost rather than realize you may be offkey and God may be trying to correct you.

Anyway, John said the people in his day could count it, and that would not be the case if the name was not in existence in a person's life yet. So, please address the point that JOHN indicated someone IN HIS DAY could count the name proving it had to be someone at that time. You just blew it away as though I never said it. Don't gloss over this point in John's words.

Mike, from chapter 4 on, the prophecies change from the 7 present day churches of Johns' day to the future events regarding the WHOLE earth and its inhabitants.......

Revelation 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter



here·af·ter adverb \hir-ˈaf-tər\
: after this : from now on

: in a future time or state

Full Definition of HEREAFTER

1
: after this in sequence or in time
2
: in some future time or state







From chapters 4:1 and on, all "Hades" progressively breaks loose on the "future" inhabitants of the whole earth.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Mike, from chapter 4 on, the prophecies change from the 7 present day churches of Johns' day to the future events regarding the WHOLE earth and its inhabitants.......

Revelation 4
4 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter



here·af·ter adverb \hir-ˈaf-tər\
: after this : from now on

: in a future time or state

Full Definition of HEREAFTER

1
: after this in sequence or in time
2
: in some future time or state






From chapters 4:1 and on, all "Hades" progressively breaks loose on the "future" inhabitants of the whole earth.

Hereafter doesn't have to be centuries. Also you still never addressed the calculation note by John.

[Sean]

Rev 13:18 KJV Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.



Mike, John gave the answer to ALL that read it....its in the same passage. There is no real mystery here and yes, it HAS been centuries later and we are still counting the number of the beast as the Lords' true church. We are the "hereafter" church of Rev. 4:1 that are still reading and understanding it.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Rev 13:18 KJV Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.



Mike, John gave the answer to ALL that read it....its in the same passage. There is no real mystery here and yes, it HAS been centuries later and we are still counting the number of the beast as the Lords' true church. We are the "hereafter" church of Rev. 4:1 that are still reading and understanding it.

The number was of a specific man, and that man had to exist in the first century for the people to be able to count it. COUNT means CALCULATE. In other words, his actual NAME calculates to 666. The letters of the Greek and Latin languages had numerical equivalents to them like Hebrew.

THAYER: Thayer Definition:
1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

The number was of a specific man, and that man had to exist in the first century for the people to be able to count it. COUNT means CALCULATE. In other words, his actual NAME calculates to 666. The letters of the Greek and Latin languages had numerical equivalents to them like Hebrew.

THAYER: Thayer Definition:
1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon

Not so fast Mike, it was written to the "hereafter" group(us) of Rev 4:1 to understand also. That group is us....we understand it today. It will be revealed in its entirety to the world someday. Thank the Lord for giving us a warning of the "man of sin" that is to come and cause ALL to take a mark on their right hand or forehead.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Not so fast Mike, it was written to the "hereafter" group(us) of Rev 4:1 to understand also. That group is us....we understand it today. It will be revealed in its entirety to the world someday. Thank the Lord for giving us a warning of the "man of sin" that is to come and cause ALL to take a mark on their right hand or forehead.

No it is not written TO a hereafter group. It is written TO the seven churches ABOUT the hereafter, which was not necessarily centuries away. Hereafter can mean a year or so away.

What says it was written TO a hereafter group? It benefits us, but WAS NOT WRITTEN TO US.

Like GALATIANS. It's pure word of God, but not written TO us, but FOR us.

We read John wrote TO the seven churches. But never read TO a HEREAFTER GROUP.

Revelation 1:4 KJV John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;


Revelation 1:11 KJV Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

To continue with what HE TOLD JOHN TO WRITE TO THE 7 CHURCHS ABOUT, Jesus saqid:

Revelation 1:19 KJV Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

He never informed John that the direct audience of the book was to a hereafter group of people, but to the seven churches ABOUT the hereafter issues as well as things in past (THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN) and present (THINGS WHICH ARE).

HEREAFTER is a term used to describe the THINGS he would write about, not a group he would write to. Any English scholar or teacher will confirm that.

never did Jesus CHANGE THE AUDIENCE from the seven churches to anyone else. Especially not a particular group he called HEREAFTER PEOPLE.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mfblume

No it is not written TO a hereafter group. It is written TO the seven churches ABOUT the hereafter, which was not necessarily centuries away. Hereafter can mean a year or so away.

What says it was written TO a hereafter group? It benefist us, but WAS NOT WRITTEN TO US.

Like GALATIANS. It's pure word of God, but not written TO us, but FOR us.

We read John wrote TO the seven churches. But never read TO a HEREAFTER GROUP.

Revelation 1:4 KJV John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;


Revelation 1:11 KJV Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

To continue with what HE TOLD JOHN TO WRITE TO THE 7 CHURCHS ABOUT, Jesus saqid:

Revelation 1:19 KJV Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

He never informed John that the direct audience of the book was to a hereafter group of people, but to the seven churches ABOUT the hereafter issues as well as things in past (THINGS WHICH THOU HAST SEEN) and present (THINGS WHICH ARE).

HEREAFTER is a term used to describe the THINGS he would write about, not a group he would write to. Any English scholar or teacher will confirm that.

never did Jesus CHANGE THE AUDIENCE from the seven churches to anyone else. Especially not a particular group he called HEREAFTER PEOPLE.

Mike, of course it was written to them,,,,the question we must ask is are WE also the church?

LOOK WHO THE EPISTLES WERE WRITTEN TO....CERTAINLY NOT US, RIGHT? .......
Romans 1:7 (the saints of Rome)
1 Cor. (the CHURCH of God in Corinth) vs 2
2 Cor. (the Church of God at Corinth and Achaia) vs 1
Galatians (the churches of Galatia)vs 2
Ephesians ( the saints at Ephesus) vs 1
Philippians (the saints at Phillipi with the bishops and deacons) vs 1
Colossians (the saints and faithful brethren at Colosse) vs 2
1 Thessalonians (The church) vs 1
2 Thessalonians (the church) vs 1
1 Tim. (to Timothy only) vs 2
2 Tim. (to timothy only) vs 2
Titus (to Titus only) vs 4
Philemon (to Philemon, Apphia, Archippus and his house CHURCH) vs 1 and 2
Hebrews ( The whole thing addressing christians) 2:1, 3:1 (holy brethren) etc.
James ( his saved Jewish BRETHREN scattered abroad) vs 1 and 2
1 Peter (the scattered saints (elect) of God) vs 1 through 4
2 Peter (all saints) vs 1 through 4
1 John (all saints or brethren) chapter 2:7
2 John (the elect lady and her children) vs 1
3 John ( to Gaius only) vs 1
Jude (to them that are sanctified by God...and called)
Revelation (the 7 churches of Asia Minor) chapters 1-3


All of the new testament(EPISTLES) were written to specific folks, but all of the passages are for us also, as long as the Lords' church is still here. INCLUDING, the book of Revelation. The church is awaiting mountains of unfulfilled prophecy that our Lord gave to His ENTIRE church. It is strange that preterists insist that the New Testament commands to "specific" folks must be relevant and followed by us today, but prophetical teachings of Jesus and the Apostles are "fulfilled" or not relevant to the believer.


That is my observation and conclusion of preterism Mike, simply "selective" observing of the New Testament.(with the "prophet" Josephus as its source of interpretation)

[Aquila]

The al-Mahdi.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

The al-Mahdi.

Before that it was Reagan, Kissinger, Hitler, Mussolini, Napolean, and the list of then-recent news that stirs the then-current dispensationalist goes on and on. It will keep going til the Lord comes. Next year it may be an Australian!