Sword at the entrance

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I already said satan has no relation to this issue, since the faith in the work of the cross to save by eradicating our good works, through eradication of self-righteousness that produces good works, cannot apply to the devil.

now you have gone to outright eradication of good works, rather than an understanding that they are what differentiates belief and faith? You say "satan has no relation," but the Bible says "satan believes, too." How is a believer's belief any different from satan's, iow?

Originally Posted by mfblume

Faith and believing are the same scripturally.

well, faith and belief may be used synonymously, yes; however there is a difference in believing something, and having faith in it, as satan's "belief" shows. So we are seeking how they differ, not how they are the same.

Originally Posted by mfblume

You are not trying to outright disagree, but are just trying to circumvent the cross for our righteousness. You stumble at the cross.

you say that, but it just may be that i am trying to hold you to a better definition of the Cross, albeit a more painful one. Otherwise how could Scripture so boldly proclaim...all those verses that bug you, culminating in a very plain "DO NOT BE DECEIVED, LITTLE CHILDREN?" without all of the caveats that we place upon salvation?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

This is a good example of how the sword is at the entrance. Self and it's good works cannot get past. The sword must cut out the unbelief in the cross that makes us think we can somehow earn our way in there. Fruit is AFTER the horse pulls the cart, after we believe the work of God to make us righteous as a gift. And once we have that righteousness, THEN we will work. And then and then only can the entrance be ours to use. Until then, though, the sword lets us know our unbelief is not getting in. That way the fruit grows but salvation by works goes.

[shazeep]

after we believe the work of God to make us righteous as a gift. And once we have that righteousness, THEN we will work. And then and then only can the entrance be ours to use.

and how would those who know these things, and believe, yet refuse to enter be identified?

[Birddog]

Satan is unredeemable, it doesn't matter how much he believes he is in chains of darkness.

We are redeemable.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Birddog

Satan is unredeemable, it doesn't matter how much he believes he is in chains of darkness.

We are redeemable.

Shazeep believes if Satan was to have GOOD FRUITS he would be saved.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

after we believe the work of God to make us righteous as a gift. And once we have that righteousness, THEN we will work. And then and then only can the entrance be ours to use.

and how would those who know these things, and believe, yet refuse to enter be identified?

as I have always said. .. by their fruits.

[houston]

Someone tell that guy that here is belief/faith and belief/acknowledgement.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by houston

Someone tell that guy that here is belief/faith and belief/acknowledgement.

lol

Amen!

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Birddog

Satan is unredeemable, it doesn't matter how much he believes he is in chains of darkness.

We are redeemable.

i agree, but that is irrelevant to the fact that satan believes. Does satan then have faith in God? He certainly believes there is only one God. So, kicking and screaming, perhaps one person here might acknowledge the difference in belief and faith, although i'm beginning to doubt it and personally don't really even care. I'm seeing that this is just another way to reveal an OP knot or something, which is why the subject is getting pulled in every direction possible to deflect from the point. So be it.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by houston

Someone tell that guy that here is belief/faith and belief/acknowledgement.

exactly. Belief is then properly delineated from faith, even though we might use the word "belief" when "faith" is what we mean. But of course any time one gets close to an OP dichotomy, any simple understanding that should take maybe 2 posts is going to take 2 pages, and be replete with caveats. Yikes.