Church Government (a collective body)

[n david]

Originally Posted by returnman

Less than 200, youth group, 20-30 my guess. Not UPC. I was told they will be paid between 30-35 thousand a year. The last full time minister was paid around 90 a year so I assume the new one is paid about the same. We also have a part time paid elderly minister that tends to issues of the same. Amazing what you can do with a membership of this size when following a biblical principal.

Interesting. I was an unpaid worship leader and youth pastor for about 12 total years, not at the same time. There were 5 at the beginning, and just over 30 when I left. It would have been nice to have been paid FT.

I don't know many youth ministers who are paid. Unless it's a large youth group and they are having weekly services and classes, I don't see it as beneficial for the church to pay a youth minister.

[returnman]

Originally Posted by TakingDominion

knowledge is power...

Too many apostolic churches treat the finances like a tightly guarded secret, which allows bitterness to fester and grow. If we don't have anything to hide, why are we hiding? If we do have something to hide, well then we have bigger problems...

I believe wholly in an annual business meeting for the voting members where the finances are disclosed in an open and honest manner.

Yeah, the one time I openly ask, not only was it squelched by the board member running the business meeting, I had a whole lot of "I can't believe you ask that" looks.

[Scott Pitta]

Our youth pastor and our seniors pastor were part time employees. So was the janitor. Our only full time employee was the pastor. He was not overpaid.

[Esaias]

Is this why "minister, priest, or pastor" was included in the list back in high school Career Day?

[Captain]

I’ve been a part of an otherwise good church that was huge and brought in a lot of money and was ran solely by the pastor, and I’m now a part of small church that is much more board ran though we have a strong pastor that the board cannot simply yank his chain.

Having said that, I think it’s important to have a board but man, boards can ruin a church faster than a good pastor who might wrestle with his ego a little.

People will never agree on what exactly a pastor should be paid but the pastor at the big church was a very good man but was still living so far above the average salary of his congregation that it was a little out of line in my opinion. The little church has ran off a lot of good men over the years because they wouldn’t let the pastor operate with the proper pastoral authority. So balance is the key of course but that’s tough to find on any subject.

And I would add that simply having open books is not a good idea. If the board is set up properly, they will keep the purse strings as they should be kept. Every church has a bitter few that would rather see preachers live in poverty and it’s best to keep those people out of the loop. But that’s 100% opinion.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by returnman

The church I attend was left with a generous gift of around 260,000 dollars recently. The way it was received and distributed was decided by the 5 elders and done so very wisely. Made me think of the many apostolic churches and how the one man being the pastor would have had 95-100% of say so as to how this would have been handled. I would think the majority would have done it without any personal gain but what a temptation to put into a single authority.

Five can be tempted just as bad as one.

[Scott Pitta]

Kenneth Haney told us to find the average income of the church member and use that as our salary.

He never drove a nicer car than a Buick.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta

Kenneth Haney told us to find the average income of the church member and use that as our salary.

He never drove a nicer car than a Buick.

Amen

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by n david

Interesting. I was an unpaid worship leader and youth pastor for about 12 total years, not at the same time. There were 5 at the beginning, and just over 30 when I left. It would have been nice to have been paid FT.

I don't know many youth ministers who are paid. Unless it's a large youth group and they are having weekly services and classes, I don't see it as beneficial for the church to pay a youth minister.

I believe this is one area where Apostolic churches have a blind spot.
I have heard many complain about losing their youth, but hardly any churches want to pay a part-time or full-time youth minister.
Like you, nd, I have been worship leader and youth pastor, but have never been paid.
I am not complaining as I never felt I missed anything by not being paid, but I still wish we had paid youth ministers.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Captain

I’ve been a part of an otherwise good church that was huge and brought in a lot of money and was ran solely by the pastor, and I’m now a part of small church that is much more board ran though we have a strong pastor that the board cannot simply yank his chain.

Having said that, I think it’s important to have a board but man, boards can ruin a church faster than a good pastor who might wrestle with his ego a little.

People will never agree on what exactly a pastor should be paid but the pastor at the big church was a very good man but was still living so far above the average salary of his congregation that it was a little out of line in my opinion. The little church has ran off a lot of good men over the years because they wouldn’t let the pastor operate with the proper pastoral authority. So balance is the key of course but that’s tough to find on any subject.

And I would add that simply having open books is not a good idea. If the board is set up properly, they will keep the purse strings as they should be kept. Every church has a bitter few that would rather see preachers live in poverty and it’s best to keep those people out of the loop. But that’s 100% opinion.

1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.