R. Warren and his Impact on Apostolic?

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Rick Warren was a Baptist who developed a techique of mass mailing to invite others to his church. I agree that having a vision and purpose helps in our walk, but there is more than "name it and claim it."

Baptists do not follow the Apostles Doctrine- their ideal is to grow numbers on the ROLL, not see folks saved and changed.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by bishoph

Without doing a detailed sketch, if you have read the Purpose Driven Church, it outlines the basic PD model. And yes, there are hundreds of churches and pastors who have modeled their church 100% after it.

Again, I have nothing against utilizing some of his and other non-Apostolic's material, I have and do on occasion. However, to follow every aspect will eventually lead you away from truth into heresy.

Eat the meat and throw away the bones.......

What do you think of his advice to have a service that is for reaching the lost? No getting onto the saints about church related issues such as giving more money, or not showing up for prayer enough, but preaching conviction on sinners to bring them to repentance and being baptized. A service were everyone knows that they can bring hungry souls and they'll hear a message to bring them an altar of repentance? (Maybe I read more into it than he actually said )

I expect that in every service the lost can be touched. But a Wednesday night bible study geared for the saints might not reach a sinner.

[tv1a]

Read Purpose Driven Church. It's too late to cited source, but Warren is not a numbers guy. In his book, he states his church often takes a lot of names off the membership role.

Purpose Driven Church is written vague so the principles can apply in any denomination. Unfortunately denominational blinders keep people from applying universal Biblical principles.

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Rick Warren was a Baptist who developed a techique of mass mailing to invite others to his church. I agree that having a vision and purpose helps in our walk, but there is more than "name it and claim it."

Baptists do not follow the Apostles Doctrine- their ideal is to grow numbers on the ROLL, not see folks saved and changed.

[tv1a]

Rick Warren model his services after Jesus. Jesus wasn't out to change the pharisees, he was out to heal the sick, raise the dead, and minister to the poor.

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Eat the meat and throw away the bones.......

What do you think of his advice to have a service that is for reaching the lost? No getting onto the saints about church related issues such as giving more money, or not showing up for prayer enough, but preaching conviction on sinners to bring them to repentance and being baptized. A service were everyone knows that they can bring hungry souls and they'll hear a message to bring them an altar of repentance? (Maybe I read more into it than he actually said )

I expect that in every service the lost can be touched. But a Wednesday night bible study geared for the saints might not reach a sinner.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Rick Warren was a Baptist who developed a technique of mass mailing to invite others to his church. I agree that having a vision and purpose helps in our walk, but there is more than "name it and claim it."

Baptists do not follow the Apostles Doctrine- their ideal is to grow numbers on the ROLL, not see folks saved and changed.

While the Baptists do not follow OP doctrine, the idea that they are only interested in growing numbers rather than to see folks saved and changed is an extreme mis-characterization. The Baptists in our community are some of the most sincere and committed folks you will ever find, I would hate to think what our community would be today without the influence of the First Baptist Church. Your characterization is offensive to me for my Baptists friends.

[bishoph]

Originally Posted by RevDWW

Eat the meat and throw away the bones.......

What do you think of his advice to have a service that is for reaching the lost? No getting onto the saints about church related issues such as giving more money, or not showing up for prayer enough, but preaching conviction on sinners to bring them to repentance and being baptized. A service were everyone knows that they can bring hungry souls and they'll hear a message to bring them an altar of repentance? (Maybe I read more into it than he actually said )

I expect that in every service the lost can be touched. But a Wednesday night bible study geared for the saints might not reach a sinner.

There are two schools of thought on this subject (probably a lot more.) Let me say that I personally see the benefits of both and find myself somewhere in the middle.

The first, is that everything we do is to win the lost for Jesus Christ. Therefore, services should be made as comfortable for the sinner or "seeker friendly" as PD churches refer to them. Incidentally this is one of the reasons that Pastor George stated as why the spiritual demonstration and worship was diminished in Pentecostal/Charasmatic PD churches. (Because a visitor may be freaked out by our demonstrative worship and our response to the spirit, so the idea is let's not have those things in order to win the lost.)

Secondly, some feel that the "church" service was designed for the "church" and their edification not for the sinner. Therefore, if the service is orientated towards edifying the saints (i.e. songs, worship, preaching, etc) then the "church" will become more Christ-like and visitors will convert not because they find the service "friendly" but rather because they are drawn to the Christ of the Christian because of their response to the edification of the saints.

Again I believe both are right, and a balanced approach is in order. Everything we do should point others to Christ, and at the same time the saints should be edified.

I have said for many years that I think one of the biggest problems we have in the Apostolic movement is the misappropriation of ministry. In other words....... Nowhere in scripture does it instruct us to teach the gospel, nor does it instruct us to preach doctrine.

If we will preach the gospel the lost will be saved, and if we will teach doctrine the saints will be edified. JMHO

Originally Posted by Blubayou

This may have been discussed before, but indulge me. While on vacation, I read a biography of Rick Warren and the story behind the establishing of Saddle back Church. The title of the book is " A Life with a Purpose". Now, I have read the "Purpose Driven Life", but have not followed the movement closely. I did find that R. Warren philosophy has really infiltrated our movement. Especially with younger ministers. One observation I made while reading the book is that at the beginning of R. Warren's ministry, the denomination he came from was mired in a traditional way of delivering the gospel. R. Warren developed some new ideas and delivery methods and really reached for the unchurched. DUH?? I see some parallels between where this denomination was in the early 70's and where we are now as a movement. I think one positive that R. Warren has going for him is that he found a very practical way to deliver the gospel to the masses that is very understandable. I do not think that everything R. Warren does should be copied in our movement, but I do think a study of his methods and philosophy would be beneficial. What say ye about R. Warren?

First, I am loathed of personalities...that of such as these and of "GREAT men" of God too. If they are truly great, they are too. I don't give the snap of the fingers for a "personality," great or small.

So, what do I have to say about R. Warren? Without question, if he expects to dwell with the blessed in eternity, he needs to obey Jn. 3:5/Acts 2:38 right away, without hesitation.

Originally Posted by BoredOutOfMyMind

Rick Warren was a Baptist who developed a techique of mass mailing to invite others to his church. I agree that having a vision and purpose helps in our walk, but there is more than "name it and claim it."

Baptists do not follow the Apostles Doctrine- their ideal is to grow numbers on the ROLL, not see folks saved and changed.

I disagree.

I've seen too many Baptist with deep conviction and burden for the lost, who care little for a larger roll, but for a community that needed to hear "the gospel and be saved."

It never fails to amaze me how people with "the truth" continue to look a the world, and those in false doctrine for "better ways" to do it "right".

There is this one book out there that is probably the BEST how-to guide ever made in how to have church.

It is called the Bible.

[RevDWW]

Originally Posted by Brother Strange

First, I am loathed of personalities...that of such as these and of "GREAT men" of God too. If they are truly great, they are too. I don't give the snap of the fingers for a "personality," great or small.

So, what do I have to say about R. Warren? Without question, if he expects to dwell with the blessed in eternity, he needs to obey Jn. 3:5/Acts 2:38 right away, without hesitation.

Amen!

Can you believe and tremble and yet not be saved? The devils believe there is One God and tremble, but it don't save them.............