The other 33 rules for UPC preachers -In the interest of being fair and balanced...

Originally Posted by pelathais

That's the one rule that the UPC should trumpet. I know it's controversial and I believe in redemption and second chances. But I also feel good about having a line drawn that no should step over.

What about the adendum I added? Should pornography viewing be considered fornication? If so, should it disqualify the viewer forever from holding a license with the UPC?

I have always believed fornication is fornication and it should be handled just like a single man that has premarital relations... except if the preacher is married it should be treated more harshly when he gets caught up in porn.

Originally Posted by philjones

You left off the one that any minister who is put out under question for ANY sexual sin can NEVER NEVER NEVER be licensed by the UPCI no matter how bad he wants to be and no matter the circumstances surrounding the situation.

I have often wondered if pornography is considered fornication and if so, how is that handled.

That is in a different section... I only wanted to compare and contrast the ones that were in the same section as television.

Marriage, Divorce and Immoral Conduct have their own section... It would be a little more tricky paraphrasing those, but I could have some fun with it! I think that is a whole separate topic though!

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by philjones

You left off the one that any minister who is put out under question for ANY sexual sin can NEVER NEVER NEVER be licensed by the UPCI no matter how bad he wants to be and no matter the circumstances surrounding the situation.

I have often wondered if pornography is considered fornication and if so, how is that handled.

IF he divorced his wife and married another, they do look the other way.

As far as I know the AOG does not license divorced men.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Originally Posted by philjones

What about the adendum I added? Should pornography viewing be considered fornication? If so, should it disqualify the viewer forever from holding a license with the UPC?

I have always believed fornication is fornication and it should be handled just like a single man that has premarital relations... except if the preacher is married it should be treated more harshly when he gets caught up in porn.

Stop hijacking the thread!



This is a different thread subject for sure.

"Fidelity and Porn Viewing. "

Originally Posted by philjones

You left off the one that any minister who is put out under question for ANY sexual sin can NEVER NEVER NEVER be licensed by the UPCI no matter how bad he wants to be and no matter the circumstances surrounding the situation.

I have often wondered if pornography is considered fornication and if so, how is that handled.

wait...

so any person who fornicated at any point in thier life is permanently barred from being a licensed minister??? Seriously???

You've gotta be kidding me... Can we be any bigger of a joke?

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by philjones

What about the adendum I added? Should pornography viewing be considered fornication? If so, should it disqualify the viewer forever from holding a license with the UPC?

I have always believed fornication is fornication and it should be handled just like a single man that has premarital relations... except if the preacher is married it should be treated more harshly when he gets caught up in porn.

You type too fast! I was looking up the word "adendum" and missed what you had added...

Your point is good: in the spiritual realm- but I don't think I would want to live in a world where the "pornography = adultery" equation could be enforced. You're dealing with the minds and thoughts of men- that's not a place where judgements can be easily made.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

wait...

so any person who fornicated at any point in thier life is permanently barred from being a licensed minister??? Seriously???

You've gotta be kidding me... Can we be any bigger of a joke?

He's talking about while they were licensed ministers, not just at any point in their lives.

Other orgs have similar rules and in fact the AOG won't renew your license if you divorce and get remarried

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by redeemedcynic84

wait...

so any person who fornicated at any point in thier life is permanently barred from being a licensed minister??? Seriously???

You've gotta be kidding me... Can we be any bigger of a joke?

I disagree, respectfully. First off, a clarification- if the "fornication" happened at a point in time "before Calvary" in a minister's life, it does not count to disqualify the preacher. We're only talking about sexual misconduct after the minister has already been licensed. If you stray then- you are disquailified for life.

And it is controversial- what about the power of Christ to redeem all sinners? What about a second chance and the hope that such an offer can give to the fallen? These are tough issues. I don't think either side has a "slam dunk" case.

But I personally feel good about a body of ministers who do have a line drawn that they all mutually agree cannot be crossed. They don't throw you out of the Kingdom of God over this; they just have this line among themselves. I think it's honorable.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

He's talking about while they were licensed ministers, not just at any point in their lives.

Other orgs have similar rules and in fact the AOG won't renew your license if you divorce and get remarried

what if they divorced you and you remarried?? That is permitted in the Bible...

also...

do they ban you from ministering if you tell a lie while being ministered?? If not it is hypocritical to ban people from ministering for a sin...

Originally Posted by pelathais

I disagree, respectfully. First off, a clarification- if the "fornication" happened at a point in time "before Calvary" in a minister's life, it does not count to disqualify the preacher. We're only talking about sexual misconduct after the minister has already been licensed. If you stray then- you are disquailified for life.

And it is controversial- what about the power of Christ to redeem all sinners? What about a second chance and the hope that such an offer can give to the fallen? These are tough issues. I don't think either side has a "slam dunk" case.

But I personally feel good about a body of ministers who do have a line drawn that they all mutually agree cannot be crossed. They don't throw you out of the Kkingdom of God over this; the just have this line among themselves. I think it's honorable.

I think it should depend on when/how it happened... if it was something where they used thier authority as a minister to force the sex somehow, then, yeah, they shouldn't be allowed...

but otherwise, aren't we limiting/hindering God???

It isn't honorable unless ALL sin is treated the same way... God doesn't see a difference between one sin and another and, really, niether should we (note: yes, there are a few exceptions, having sex with someone should not be one of them as long as it is a mistake and not something more serious)