A question from a saint... for anyone that would like to give an answer...

[Blubayou]

Don't know if this is making your question a standards issue or not, but here goes. It was my experience when I came into this way, that many things (standards) were preached as absolutes and necessary for salvation. As I search the scriptures and sought God, I found that I had to make some decisions on what Holiness was, and how a child of God should live. As I developed a walk with God, and learned about the Grace of God, I found that outward holiness was only a part of holiness. The most important aspect of holiness is inward holiness, a part of which are portrayed in the Fruit of the Spirit. While outward standards have a place in our walk with God, I do not believe that they are heaven or hell issues. My walk with God is just that - a walk where I depend on HIS leading.

[JaneEyre]

I heard of an Ole Timer that wouldn't drink as he called it "Sodey Pop". When he started Dr. Pepper's, he felt as though he were backslid. So, he gave them up. Would he have gone to hell for drinking "Sodey Pop/Dr. Peppers"? I don't think so. Did he think so? Yes he did. Does that seem silly to some here? I would think so.

Carry it to other areas and think how it seems to some here. We have to seek out our own salvation. Some issues are salvational and some are not. Be temperate. Be moderate. Be wise. Worrying about drinking "Sodey Pop" or not drinking it is a little out of balance for me, but I guess not for him.

I've known others who couldn't eat candy bars with chocolate. No chocolate pie, no chocolate pudding, no chocolate syrup or Ovaltine. They thought anyone who partook of anything with caffeine was going to hell. How do we draw the line? We must seek God for guidance. There is always someone out there preaching about something that another person does not believe as wrong.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Thanks, sister.

This issue reminds me... I have often noticed that some people start "freaking out" when they stop to consider, "How do I know I have the truth?" I have spoken to preachers (!) who felt it is too dangerous a road to travel when one seeks for God to speak to them or direct them concerning truth. They reason, "Many killers have claimed God spoke to them about their mission to kill. What if I end up like that?" I am amazed at ministry who claims to serve God is afraid to even consider to reach out to God for verification or correction in regards to truth using this reasoning.

If there is a God, and WE KNOW there is, and His Word shows us quite clearly that we can hear from Him and be directed by Him, through MANY MANY different means, we must settle it that if we ask for an egg He is not going to give us a serpent.

Whether or not there are a billion and one different doctrines in this world, let alone religions, where truth is like a needle in a haystack, God can hear the prayers of the sincere soul and seek that person out and direct them towards truth.

GOD IS REAL!

The Bible tells us..."they that hunger and thirst after righteousness will be filled.". One way to confirm if it is God talking to you is if what you hear being said is in agreement with the word. There are many voices in the world but the scriptures teach that His sheep Hear His voice and will not follow another.

For many years I was afraid to speak on certain issues because I worried that people would think that I thought I was "so spiritual". One of those issues is talking about the spirit world and how demonic forces work and operate to steal, kill, and destroy. I don't worry about it so much now. If a person truly believes that Christ's spirit is greater than satan's, then there should be no reason to fear.

It is very difficult for some people to dicipher between man's traditions and what truly saith the word of the Lord. Many things have been said from the pulpit that they claimed was God, but it was man...for this very reason we are told to "study to show ourselves approved unto God...", and to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling."

I do not believe that we should have to live in so much fear that we would rather give up every convenience of pleasure, or fashion of dress just in case God may have a problem with it. The scriptures are clear...we are to be modest and moderate in all things. Surely folks can tell if they are dressed inappropriately..if things are showing that shouldn't be, or too flashy or ornate to draw attention to oneself. It isn't about being so different from the status quo that we are thought to be 'odd'. It is about people seeing your modesty and knowing that you are a child of God and live a holy life.

For the saint who wants to know...I am thankful that our elders who have taught their own 'traditions' have confessed that they were wrong to put more on the people than God intended. I can respect this kind of leader.

What I have trouble with is Pastors who continue to preach things they know are not Biblical just so they can't be accused of "compromize". This makes it about their pride and not about the truth.

Bro. Blume I am enjoying your input on these things. Your wisdom shows.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by JaneEyre

I heard of an Ole Timer that wouldn't drink as he called it "Sodey Pop". When he started Dr. Pepper's, he felt as though he were backslid. So, he gave them up. Would he have gone to hell for drinking "Sodey Pop/Dr. Peppers"? I don't think so. Did he think so? Yes he did. Does that seem silly to some here? I would think so.

Carry it to other areas and think how it seems to some here. We have to seek out our own salvation. Some issues are salvational and some are not. Be temperate. Be moderate. Be wise. Worrying about drinking "Sodey Pop" or not drinking it is a little out of balance for me, but I guess not for him.

I've known others who couldn't eat candy bars with chocolate. No chocolate pie, no chocolate pudding, no chocolate syrup or Ovaltine. They thought anyone who partook of anything with caffeine was going to hell. How do we draw the line? We must seek God for guidance. There is always someone out there preaching about something that another person does not believe as wrong.

Miss Jane,

Good thought. You know, many of us are like the Catholics who give us something for LENT..like chocolate or pastries...something that they give up as a sacrifice. This is honorable to do if you feel led to do it. When it becomes wrong is when you try to impose your sacrifice to God on others by requiring something that there is no Biblical basis for it.

We have heard discrepencies all through the years because one's thoughts on what is right and wrong for them are preached to other's as God's truth. This is why you would say, "Pentecost has changed". It is not Pentecost...the basic doctrine of the church is still the same, but people have changed and our culture has changed. God never changes. That is the security I rest in.

Blessings, Rhoni

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by kylady

I haven't been on this site for a very long time.. I was a former Methodist for 12 years.. and now I have been an Apostolic/Pentecostal for 34 years.. so I have been around alot of different things in my life.. and have had family and friends in different faiths/beliefs etc...
When I first was introduced to "Pentecost" at the age of 9.. it was NOTHING like what folks are calling "Pentecost" now..
I have always been taught that in the "end times" there would be a "great falling away"..
I don't understand why women have went from never cutting their hair to cutting it...

Hi kylady,

I have been around and in Pentecost since I was 11 years old (35 years ago). My own immediate family wasn't saved until many years later when I led most of them to a Pentecostal altar.

However, I do have extended family members whose family photographs go all the way back to early years of the movement. In these photos I see our pioneers with beards, women in slacks and with cut hair.

I remember seeing one photo of the wife of the UPC General Superintendant going into a reception at General Conference in the 1950's She was wearing a small and discrete set of pearls.

What you remember as being "the norm" for you was really a minority view in the early years. That's why the various Resolutions and additions to the Articles of Faith were added in subsequent years. These changes represent something of a paper trail of changes. Changes that were often forced upon churches, saints and preachers.

There is a photo on another thread of one of the first Apostolic missionaries. He was the grandfather of a poster here. Sadly this pioneer would never be considered for a FM appointment today. Not because of his message, but because of his beard.

Things seem to have remained "unchanged" for you because you were a apparently a part of the party that was winning out for a while. For the rest of us we have been troubled most of our lives as we have watched the Gospel message changed and extra-biblical and even un-biblical doctrines were added.

Originally Posted by kylady

Television was TABOO.. now it seems to be the ISSUE at hand in which the UPCI is "concerned about".. but all the while that seems to be the "hot issue"... there are WAY MORE concerns for some of us saints.. than Television..

Television was always a controversial subject. The ban on TV advertising in 1977 had been proposed and defeated for years until its proponents got enough control to wrest it through.

Originally Posted by kylady

Pants on women.. when I heard it preached againest as a child.. now it is going on at alot of places... etc...

Again, I have seen family photos of Apostolic pioneers where the women are involved in painting and in outdoor recreation. The women were wearing slacks. It was taboo for a lady to wear slacks when it wasn't necessary for modesty and wearing them to church was often considered a sin. But modesty was important in those days. So if the ladies were climbing ladders and such they wore slacks.

This wasn't universal, as your experience proves. But that's the point. There was respect for different views back in those days.

Originally Posted by kylady

I guess if I had to ask a generalized question for anyone to answer it would sort of go like this..
"What is Pentecost to you?"
or maybe this question... "How have you personally changed as a Pentecostal over the years"....??
I don't mean this in a judgemental way.. I think there are alot of us that neither want to stray to the left... or the right.. we just honestly want to do what is right by the Lord and win souls for the Lord .. instead of being "confused by all the changes that are going on within Pentecost in general..
I haven't forgotten what it was like as a child to have parents searching for more truth.. and they were very glad when they heard about Acts 2:38..
It concerns some of us that are just tired of all the confusion that seems to be going on...

And this is why so many pastors tried so hard to isolate their saints from the fellowship at large. They didn't want people to see the broad spectrum of ideas and standards that existed.

Originally Posted by kylady

I have told some of my family and friends.. when rubber meets the road.. wouldn't we be better off leaving off things.. instead of adding more
things" to our lives.. and finding out some day .. that some "things" really did matter to the Lord .. when we come face to face with Him.. it will be too late to change our ways then..

Thankfully, we have the Word of God that tells us what is essential. Go through your "do's and don't's" and compare them to Scripture. Then there is no need to fear when the Lord returns. He has given us his Word so that we can have confidence in how we live our lives.

Originally Posted by kylady

One last comment/or question... Can someone PLEASE explain what is all the deal about "magic hair"???
I have "never" saw that until I was on this particular site... anyone want to answer that for me.. please feel free too..
I do care what happens around me.. simply because things that have already changed in Pentecost has affected my family.. and I want Bible answers if any of you would like to share your thoughts/and or scriptures concerning as to what being "Pentecostal" is to you .. God bless and guide all of us is my prayer!

There is an influential writer who also speaks at retreats and Conferences who teaches that the uncut hair of a women gives her power to call angels and other spiritual benefit. A couple of popular male evangelists have helped to spread this idea. Ladies are instructed to spread out their hair over photos of loved ones being prayed for, over prayer requests and even onto the bodies of the sick or oppressed. It is said that the uncut hair will summon angels for protection and healing or for whatever the need is.

Many on AFF feel that this is unbiblical and wrong. I personally feel that it is silly and wrong. There's a spectrum of opinion like with everything else.

[Rhoni]

There is an influential writer who also speaks at retreats and Conferences who teaches that the uncut hair of a women gives her power to call angels and other spiritual benefit. A couple of popular male evangelists have helped to spread this idea. Ladies are instructed to spread out their hair over photos of loved ones being prayed for, over prayer requests and even onto the bodies of the sick or oppressed. It is said that the uncut hair will summon angels for protection and healing or for whatever the need is.

Many on AFF feel that this is unbiblical and wrong. I personally feel that it is silly and wrong. There's a spectrum of opinion like with everything else.

Pelathais,

You have given her good answers to her questions. The only point I can see that I agree with about the Doctrine of the hair is that God does honor our obedience to those who have the rule over us.

Many times children obey parents not understanding why they have told them 'no' about something. Parents have a deeper understanding of the dangers out there that come with age.

Many Pastors have the mind of God about a thing that is meant for their congregation alone, because of the spirits in that city or surrounding community. They sound the warning for their people and the obedience without understanding is an honor to God.***just clarification here: the way it is presented as a protection and not a sin is very important, and needs to be in alignment with the scripture, we are not talking about drinking the kool-aid here***

Not cutting your hair and asking God to honor your obedience does get God's attention.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by kylady

I haven't been on this site for a very long time.. I was a former Methodist for 12 years.. and now I have been an Apostolic/Pentecostal for 34 years.. so I have been around alot of different things in my life.. and have had family and friends in different faiths/beliefs etc...
When I first was introduced to "Pentecost" at the age of 9.. it was NOTHING like what folks are calling "Pentecost" now..
I have always been taught that in the "end times" there would be a "great falling away"..
I don't understand why women have went from never cutting their hair to cutting it...
Television was TABOO.. now it seems to be the ISSUE at hand in which the UPCI is "concerned about".. but all the while that seems to be the "hot issue"... there are WAY MORE concerns for some of us saints.. than Television..
Pants on women.. when I heard it preached againest as a child.. now it is going on at alot of places... etc...
I guess if I had to ask a generalized question for anyone to answer it would sort of go like this..
"What is Pentecost to you?"
or maybe this question... "How have you personally changed as a Pentecostal over the years"....??
I don't mean this in a judgemental way.. I think there are alot of us that neither want to stray to the left... or the right.. we just honestly want to do what is right by the Lord and win souls for the Lord .. instead of being "confused by all the changes that are going on within Pentecost in general..
I haven't forgotten what it was like as a child to have parents searching for more truth.. and they were very glad when they heard about Acts 2:38..
It concerns some of us that are just tired of all the confusion that seems to be going on...
I have told some of my family and friends.. when rubber meets the road.. wouldn't we be better off leaving off things.. instead of adding more
things" to our lives.. and finding out some day .. that some "things" really did matter to the Lord .. when we come face to face with Him.. it will be too late to change our ways then..
One last comment/or question... Can someone PLEASE explain what is all the deal about "magic hair"???
I have "never" saw that until I was on this particular site... anyone want to answer that for me.. please feel free too..
I do care what happens around me.. simply because things that have already changed in Pentecost has affected my family.. and I want Bible answers if any of you would like to share your thoughts/and or scriptures concerning as to what being "Pentecostal" is to you .. God bless and guide all of us is my prayer!

Some of us have never changed and never will. The bible tells us that there will be a great falling away and that is what you are seeing. People are in love with the world instead of in love with the Lord.

[Whole Hearted]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

And this is a prime example of a close-minded ultra-conservative who uses scripture out of context rather than admit they are wrong

You have absolutely no right to say this.

You do not know me or anything about me.

I am not an Ultra con. just a conservative, that preaches the Word of God.

I still preach the same thing that my great grand parents taught me and it is bible. I have not and will not accept this watered down message that so many wish to follow today.


PS if I am ever wrong I will be the first to amit it.

[Rhoni]

You're right and I apologize.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Barb]

Originally Posted by pelathais

Again, I have seen family photos of Apostolic pioneers where the women are involved in painting and in outdoor recreation. The women were wearing slacks. It was taboo for a lady to wear slacks when it wasn't necessary for modesty and wearing them to church was often considered a sin. But modesty was important in those days. So if the ladies were climbing ladders and such they wore slacks.

One of the dearest ladies in all the world was a member of our church when I was a young'un...if ever someone deserved to bear the title of "Saint," it was she.

She sponsored the Freemans in Africa for years with funds, as well as encouraging letters.

As a side note: when I was yet unsaved, she prophesied over me things that she never saw come to pass.

I said all of that to lay the ground work here...this dear Mother in Zion owned an apartment house and was widowed.

She did all of the yardwork and upkeep herself, and many is the time in my youth our family would go by there and see her up on a ladder in a pair of baggie jeans.

She never wore them anywhere else and would have had a duck to see me in pants.

Well into her 70s she wore them...not to be cute, but for convenience sake.

We never thought that she was out of line for doing so, and I still don't.

This wasn't universal, as your experience proves. But that's the point. There was respect for different views back in those days.

We have lost much it appears...