The LIE - Page 2

revrandy · #11 11-01-2007, 07:48 PM

I have always thought the concept of the Trinity denies the Sovereignty of God in itself...

aegsm76 · #12 11-01-2007, 07:52 PM

Just think of all of those hours that were spent in debates that could have been avoided!
AB, I do agree with part of your premise. I do believe many "trinitarians" truly believe in one God. When I have had them explain their theory of the Godhead, this is what they believe.
In my personal experience, the issue arises over the word, "Trinity".

ThePastorsCoach · #13 11-01-2007, 07:59 PM

The Questions still have not been answered. We all know what history says. We all know the definition of The Trinity.
I have not read a thing that I did not read 30 years ago when I first encountered a "Oneness Pentecostal".

We know that the early "Oneness" pioneers were not always "Oneness". When was that word coined?
Did the early "Oneness" pioneers that baptized in Jesus name say that the ones that stayed with the A/G believed in "Three God's"?

Somebody, somewhere knows where this stuff started and I want to know who started it. From all I have read - Haywood did not believe or preach that Trinitarians believed in Three God's. Did Andrew Urshan believe and preach this? Come on guys - you can do better than this. Tell the truth!

IAintMovin · #14 11-01-2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The Questions still have not been answered. We all know what history says. We all know the definition of The Trinity.
I have not read a thing that I did not read 30 years ago when I first encountered a "Oneness Pentecostal".

We know that the early "Oneness" pioneers were not always "Oneness". When was that word coined?
Did the early "Oneness" pioneers that baptized in Jesus name say that the ones that stayed with the A/G believed in "Three God's"?

Somebody, somewhere knows where this stuff started and I want to know who started it. From all I have read - Haywood did not believe or preach that Trinitarians believed in Three God's. Did Andrew Urshan believe and preach this? Come on guys - you can do better than this. Tell the truth!

I will say again.......I think that whoever started it is probably DEAD.........so you might just be out of luck.........

I want to know who OKed to do away with Jesus Name Baptism and only repeat the command of Jesus instead of obeying it.........see.... AB .....the one who started all that is dead........

I am NOT in any taking a shot, I am just saying that I do not believe the one who started this false doctrine is on this forum...............

IAintMovin · #15 11-01-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The Questions still have not been answered. We all know what history says. We all know the definition of The Trinity.
I have not read a thing that I did not read 30 years ago when I first encountered a "Oneness Pentecostal".

We know that the early "Oneness" pioneers were not always "Oneness". When was that word coined?
Did the early "Oneness" pioneers that baptized in Jesus name say that the ones that stayed with the A/G believed in "Three God's"?

Somebody, somewhere knows where this stuff started and I want to know who started it. From all I have read - Haywood did not believe or preach that Trinitarians believed in Three God's. Did Andrew Urshan believe and preach this? Come on guys - you can do better than this. Tell the truth!

]I remember growing up many called us........ONELESS...........havent heard that one in a while..........

mizpeh · #16 11-01-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pelathais

When did it get started? Pretty much from the beginning. Gregory of Nyssa (died around 386) wrote an apologia entitled "On Not Three Gods."

When the Church's language made the shift from Greek to Latin, the "Fathers" began to use the Latin word "persona" instead of the Greek "prosopa."

Though both words had a similar meaning, in Latin philosophy "persona" was already developed to include the idea of "separate beings." The Greek "prosopa" didn't carry that baggage. So, in the West there was an almost immediate argument from some that the "Orthodox Christianity" of the Old Catholic Church was "tritheistic." Certain "heretics" of that time made the claim as did Jews and later Muslims. Many pagans remarked on what they saw as an inconsistency within Christian philosophy.

In many places orthodox believers themselves sometimes tended toward a tritheistic outlook as opposed to "what they're supposed to believe." Concerning Jesus Christ, the Nicene Creed states:

Today it's stated as, "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God..."

Add to that, the Holy Spirit,

and it's easy to see how even many Trinitarians get a tritheistic view. The language of the creeds inherently lends itself to the idea of "three seperate Beings who are all called "God."

The charge of "Tritheism" has been repeated by many since antiquity.

Thanks Pelathais, I was thinking along the same lines. There is nothing new under the sun. All these arguments have been going on for thousands of years. Tertullian responded to the same accusation of tritheism in Against Praxeas.

pelathais · #17 11-01-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

The Questions still have not been answered. We all know what history says. We all know the definition of The Trinity.
I have not read a thing that I did not read 30 years ago when I first encountered a "Oneness Pentecostal".

We know that the early "Oneness" pioneers were not always "Oneness". When was that word coined?
Did the early "Oneness" pioneers that baptized in Jesus name say that the ones that stayed with the A/G believed in "Three God's"?

Somebody, somewhere knows where this stuff started and I want to know who started it. From all I have read - Haywood did not believe or preach that Trinitarians believed in Three God's. Did Andrew Urshan believe and preach this? Come on guys - you can do better than this. Tell the truth!

Most of the language came from older sources. People would do research and come up with the terminology from older debates. Most of it was from the Unitarian debates of the 19th Century. I'm at work right now, but I do remember reading how the term "Oneness" was carried over. There was an almost verbatum statemnent that many used that had been used by Unitarians earlier.

The fact of the matter is, "this stuff started" almost 2,000 years ago. We've just been rehashing it over and over again.

pelathais · #18 11-01-2007, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAintMovin

]I remember growing up many called us........ONELESS...........havent heard that one in a while..........

"This here is a oneless church, onliest way I know to be right..."

ThePastorsCoach · #19 11-01-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revrandy

Doesn't Bro. Benny teach in 9 or so manifestations?

He did this I think about 20 years ago - but then recanted and pulled all the books he wrote it in and had them reprinted without the "9 of them" theory in them. He did appear on TBN and taught this - I saw and heard him do it. After much rebuke - he issued a statement and recanted and denied believing that there were actually 9 persons in the Godhead.
As far as I can see - BH has been a true tritheist and actually believes there are three distinct flesh and blood persons in the Godhead. I do know some Apostolic (not YOUR BRAND) preachers/ministers that are influencing him on a regular basis and I find that INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hoovie · #20 11-01-2007, 08:20 PM

It is a lie. And yes the lying must stop if we desire to have any merit at all in theological discussions.

For those of you who have met "many... who believe very strongly in three gods" PLease post ONE single video clip of anyone of any stature at all in Christian circles, who confesses faith in three gods.

These clips should be easy to find - or do they only pledge their allegence after dark in debates with those evil One God folk??

If we get alot of response I will start a new thread to handle the videos...