Community Chapel, Seattle Wa

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Paul welcomed open skepticism by the Bereans when they checked everything he said against the word

Bad application of a good Scripture.

Why? Tell me why? You keep making assertions and then when I asked for why you just make another assertion in it's place.

You asked one (1) question. You disagree with my answer. So be it.

I didn't denounce skepticism, or suggest it should never be exercised publicly. My salient point was that NO HARM would come from first seeking private corroboration.

If the accusations are false, the accuser should (ideally) be subjected to the same consequences as the accused would be if they were true.

If the accusations have merit, the victim may have been needlessly traumatized just because someone insists on shooting first and asking questions later.

No Scripture proscribes the kind of caution I have advocated.

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

I have a book called occult,and I understand it was based on what happened at that church in WA.
I did know the church was oneness,but I had heard it was more of the PCI view,than the PAJC view.

The book to which you refer is a novel written by a former Chapel member.

I don't know the difference between PCI vis-a-vis PAJC. The bookstore sold David Bernard's Oneness of God.

[Scott Hutchinson]

My dearest Bro.Or Sister in Christ the PCI view is a view that one gets saved then gets the Baptism of The Holy Ghost and baptism in Jesus name as post salvational experiences.
The PAJC view is that one must repent,receive The Holy Ghost and be baptized in Jesus Name in order to be borned again.
The Pentecostal church international hence PCI and The PAJC Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ were the two orgs that merged to form the UPCI.

[Walk and Talk]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

From what I understand these folks were sincere at one point and following The Lord, but got off into some things involving sensual dancing which later led into wife swaping and adultery.

The process of falling involved many things. The scope of all that happened good and bad would take an analytical book to explore. Too much for my comments here to adequately lay out.

Yes, originally it was a wonderful work of the Lord. The church and Bible College began in the 60s. Most of the congregation was very young in the Lord - some right out of the hippie movement.

Since the church had a Bible College, the pastor set guidelines that seemed necessary for helping the young ex-hippie kids learn about being Godly in actions and attire; especially since many felt called to the Bible College with a desire to eventually be used by the Lord in the ministry. Men were to be men, and the women were to be women. Suits and dresses were the expected attire. For the most part, the men did not have facial hair, nor long hair. Women wore dresses and were encouraged to have longer hair. There were guidelines about dating and avoiding the trappings they had engaged in in the world.

The pastor had a lot on his plate as he needed to teach many balances and perspectives. He let everyone know they needed to trust him as he guided the ship. I personally feel he did right by these guidelines.

However, as the congregation grew in maturity, and as some doctrines came forth, he still kept a ruling hand on the thinking and actions of the members. Thus, in my opinion, it grew from being a good work of the Lord into an imbalanced group (cult - if you please). I don't feel the cult like activities happened until the last 4-5 years. Starting about 1982/83.

There were some pre-dancing doctrines that come forth that I feel helped lead into the fall. However, the dancing and the "connections" doctrines/practices were the major imbalances that brought the house down - big time. The connections doctrine/practice was what led into adulteries, divorces, etc. It was not a practice of wife swapping, rather of people being allowed to fall in love with others, courtesy the "connections" teaching.

Since the fall was major and involved several thousand people, it was very public. Some of the public actions were not all the fault of the leadership. The actions of some reflected on the entire church and the church got the blame. However, the pastor and some of the leadership were responsible for much of the disgrace.

The mystery seems to be how many people, very well trained in the Word, could be so led down an ungodly path. As things came from the pulpit and through those women "used" in "prophesying" that seemed slightly off, there would be frequent altar calls to submit to the pastor and trust him as Jesus' under-shepherd. These commitments to trust and obey took many, by little baby steps, down the road into doing things that 10 years previous everyone would have fled from.

As the church began down the wrong path, many elders and members began to express concern. These people, knowing things were going terribly wrong, and that they had no chance to awaken the people from within the church, left. Many of those that left tried to rescue as many as they could. Many helped set up support networks for those that eventually came out - hurt. The congregation was told not to listen to these people (the dissenters) as they were being used of the devil to fight the work of God. Thus started the obvious cultic blocking of the members from having outside voices speaking about what was going on.

It was once a very good church that fell in its later years. Yes, some that have left say it was rotten from the beginning. However, you will find most of those voices coming from people with deep hurts, or those that have reverted to their prior trinitarian ritualistic churches.

Know that many left as things were going down. Many received the tremendous good that represented the church and Bible College in the first maybe 15 years. Many that have been hurt have had twenty years for receiving a healing and finding good churches to be members of. Some backslid. Some are still floundering - thought when you consider how big the church was (along with its many offshoots (satellite churches)), the percentage of the membership that are out there still floundering is small.

Well, that is just my input.
Walk and Talk

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The PAJC view is that one must repent,receive The Holy Ghost and be baptized in Jesus Name in order to be borned again.
The Pentecostal church international hence PCI and The PAJC Pentecostal Assemblies of Jesus Christ were the two orgs that merged to form the UPCI.

Thanks, Scott. Yes, it was definitely PCI then. The pastor's father and brother were also pastors. His brother pastored a church in Boise, ID for many years. He passed away a few years ago.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I hate to hear about sincere folks falling away and I agree the pastor proably was correct in the beginning.
There are lessons we can learn from these sort of situations.
I trust that there are those who survived this situation with their faith in Christ intact.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Walk and Talk

The process of falling involved many things. The scope of all that happened good and bad would take an analytical book to explore. Too much for my comments here to adequately lay out.

Yes, originally it was a wonderful work of the Lord. The church and Bible College began in the 60s. Most of the congregation was very young in the Lord - some right out of the hippie movement.

Since the church had a Bible College, the pastor set guidelines that seemed necessary for helping the young ex-hippie kids learn about being Godly in actions and attire; especially since many felt called to the Bible College with a desire to eventually be used by the Lord in the ministry. Men were to be men, and the women were to be women. Suits and dresses were the expected attire. For the most part, the men did not have facial hair, nor long hair. Women wore dresses and were encouraged to have longer hair. There were guidelines about dating and avoiding the trappings they had engaged in in the world.

The pastor had a lot on his plate as he needed to teach many balances and perspectives. He let everyone know they needed to trust him as he guided the ship. I personally feel he did right by these guidelines.

However, as the congregation grew in maturity, and as some doctrines came forth, he still kept a ruling hand on the thinking and actions of the members. Thus, in my opinion, it grew from being a good work of the Lord into an imbalanced group (cult - if you please). I don't feel the cult like activities happened until the last 4-5 years. Starting about 1982/83.

There were some pre-dancing doctrines that come forth that I feel helped lead into the fall. However, the dancing and the "connections" doctrines/practices were the major imbalances that brought the house down - big time. The connections doctrine/practice was what led into adulteries, divorces, etc. It was not a practice of wife swapping, rather of people being allowed to fall in love with others, courtesy the "connections" teaching.

Since the fall was major and involved several thousand people, it was very public. Some of the public actions were not all the fault of the leadership. The actions of some reflected on the entire church and the church got the blame. However, the pastor and some of the leadership were responsible for much of the disgrace.

The mystery seems to be how many people, very well trained in the Word, could be so led down an ungodly path. As things came from the pulpit and through those women "used" in "prophesying" that seemed slightly off, there would be frequent altar calls to submit to the pastor and trust him as Jesus' under-shepherd. These commitments to trust and obey took many, by little baby steps, down the road into doing things that 10 years previous everyone would have fled from.

As the church began down the wrong path, many elders and members began to express concern. These people, knowing things were going terribly wrong, and that they had no chance to awaken the people from within the church, left. Many of those that left tried to rescue as many as they could. Many helped set up support networks for those that eventually came out - hurt. The congregation was told not to listen to these people (the dissenters) as they were being used of the devil to fight the work of God. Thus started the obvious cultic blocking of the members from having outside voices speaking about what was going on.

It was once a very good church that fell in its later years. Yes, some that have left say it was rotten from the beginning. However, you will find most of those voices coming from people with deep hurts, or those that have reverted to their prior trinitarian ritualistic churches.

Know that many left as things were going down. Many received the tremendous good that represented the church and Bible College in the first maybe 15 years. Many that have been hurt have had twenty years for receiving a healing and finding good churches to be members of. Some backslid. Some are still floundering - thought when you consider how big the church was (along with its many offshoots (satellite churches)), the percentage of the membership that are out there still floundering is small.

Well, that is just my input.
Walk and Talk

Thanks for sharing, I don't know if you were the one I was corresponding with on FCF when I shared some of the details about this church's downfall.

My knowledge of this church came about through a instructor in Bible College sharing about it, but I didn't hear the detalis until late last year, shocking, I agree with your earlier post, everything I read even the notes downloaded from the Pastor revealed it to be a orthodox oneness church. Sad that so many were broken over it, makes me fear as a leader in how I lead.

Loren Yadon said,
Attorney's Mistakes Go to Jail
Doctor's Mistakes Die
Preachers Mistakes go to Hell

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

From what I understand these folks were sincere at one point and following The Lord, but got off into some things involving sensual dancing which later led into wife swaping and adultery.

Thanks for your grace, Scott.

Exodus 32, re the golden calf, is the story of Community Chapel, in a nutshell. I read that chapter and feel like I was there.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Originally Posted by Stonewall

Thanks, Scott. Yes, it was definitely PCI then. The pastor's father and brother were also pastors. His brother pastored a church in Boise, ID for many years. He passed away a few years ago.

Stonewall since you were a former member ,it doesn't seem to have affected your Christianity,you seem like you have a strong faith in Christ.

[Scott Hutchinson]

People can and often fail us but Jesus Christ never will.