yeah... that is common sense. Contradiction whether short term or a lifestyle is human nature. The principle is still the same no matter the failure of man to hold up or not the basic truths. Holiness is a complete aspect of a person in ALL things. To negate any aspect of man's being inward or outward to holiness is false doctrine. hypocrite or not. Truth is truth no matter the failure of it's messenger.
So why then, is a woman who "looks" another *man's* idea of holy treated overall better by the OP organizations than a woman who trims her hair and follows the standard?
I see nothing in the bible that gives any man or woman the right to mistreat/ignore/judge a woman by how she looks according to OP standard. Even nothing in I Cor 11 says to mistreat/ignore/judge those who disagree with the OP standard. It says "But if any man be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God".
OP churches with these type of standards do not openly come out and admit that they treat women who do not abide by their rules different and like second class citizens.
And they will never admit that it is not a salvational issue. It is not above the atoning blood of Christ.
__________________
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. (Psalms 118:8)
Well, bless your heart.
No. No one believes that. YOUR interpretation of scripture is what is rejected.
-P.R. Rep for NavyGoat
Well my friend, you arent Navy Goat so I dont know how this applies to you? and Yes LOTS of people simply ignor large portions of scripture that they dont like. more than a few and probably most.
Nice try though....
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Ferd do believe that if your wife cuts her hair and puts on a pair of pants while wearing makeup she would go to hell?
I hope you respond to my previous post, before this one. but now that I have posed my own questions, here goes.
The bible clearly teaches that men should have short hair and women long. Period. That is what the bible says. It was important to Paul when he wrote it. he used words like 'ordanances' and 'everyone does it this way" related to that.
BUT nowhere does it say UNCUT. I dont teach uncut because I cannot justify that. I do not think one can simply reject scripture, tell God "not that one" and not be in rebellion. we all know where that word goes.
Long is enough. As is SHORT (for men). We should each be able to tell within ourselves what is which and if we are good with God. I dont make it my business to decide that for other people (my wife included).
Pants.
The bible teaches explicitly that men are men and women are women and ne'r the twain shall criss cross.... if you are one and trying to be the other, you are LOST. It is an abomination to God. Period. aint no way around that. Its bible.
BUT if I take a 14 year old girl out of the local highschool and march her into Macy's and walk into the Jr. Ms. department, and point at a rack of pants and tell her those are mens clothes, she is going to think I am purely and utterly nuts.
At the same time, my baptist Grandmother who died in 1990 at the age of 80, didnt own a pair of pants that I remember. Pants were mens clothes to her.
We need to get past some hangups, teach sound doctrine and give folks room to live for God within the safe confines of sound teaching. (Yea I realize this makes me left of a good part of the UPCI.... but not all of the UPCI)
As for my wife, first, she NOT ME is in charge of her relationship with God. I dont get a vote. We do talk, we do walk together, but at the end of the day I cannot and will not order her around and speak for her soul. I can be the spiritual leader in my home. I can provide sound teaching of scripture and insure my family is being fed in a congregation that teaches right. But at the end of the day, her salvation is in her own hands to work out.
My wife does not cut her hair, or wear pants or makeup. These are her convictions. We do not project our values on others one way or the other. We live our lives by the disiplines that we have formed from our own prayer lives, walk with God, and yes, the way we were raised.... but they are ours and no one elses.
One more thing. Makeup is YUCKY. period. That aint bible. but it is Truth.
Peace!
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
I hope you respond to my previous post, before this one. but now that I have posed my own questions, here goes.
The bible clearly teaches that men should have short hair and women long. Period. That is what the bible says. It was important to Paul when he wrote it. he used words like 'ordanances' and 'everyone does it this way" related to that.
BUT nowhere does it say UNCUT. I dont teach uncut because I cannot justify that. I do not think one can simply reject scripture, tell God "not that one" and not be in rebellion. we all know where that word goes.
Long is enough. As is SHORT (for men). We should each be able to tell within ourselves what is which and if we are good with God. I dont make it my business to decide that for other people (my wife included).
Pants.
The bible teaches explicitly that men are men and women are women and ne'r the twain shall criss cross.... if you are one and trying to be the other, you are LOST. It is an abomination to God. Period. aint no way around that. Its bible.
BUT if I take a 14 year old girl out of the local highschool and march her into Macy's and walk into the Jr. Ms. department, and point at a rack of pants and tell her those are mens clothes, she is going to think I am purely and utterly nuts.
At the same time, my baptist Grandmother who died in 1990 at the age of 80, didnt own a pair of pants that I remember. Pants were mens clothes to her.
We need to get past some hangups, teach sound doctrine and give folks room to live for God within the safe confines of sound teaching. (Yea I realize this makes me left of a good part of the UPCI.... but not all of the UPCI)
As for my wife, first, she NOT ME is in charge of her relationship with God. I dont get a vote. We do talk, we do walk together, but at the end of the day I cannot and will not order her around and speak for her soul. I can be the spiritual leader in my home. I can provide sound teaching of scripture and insure my family is being fed in a congregation that teaches right. But at the end of the day, her salvation is in her own hands to work out.
My wife does not cut her hair, or wear pants or makeup. These are her convictions. We do not project our values on others one way or the other. We live our lives by the disiplines that we have formed from our own prayer lives, walk with God, and yes, the way we were raised.... but they are ours and no one elses.
One more thing. Makeup is YUCKY. period. That aint bible. but it is Truth.
So why then, is a woman who "looks" another *man's* idea of holy treated overall better by the OP organizations than a woman who trims her hair and follows the standard?
I see nothing in the bible that gives any man or woman the right to mistreat/ignore/judge a woman by how she looks according to OP standard. Even nothing in I Cor 11 says to mistreat/ignore/judge those who disagree with the OP standard. It says "But if any man be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God".
OP churches with these type of standards do not openly come out and admit that they treat women who do not abide by their rules different and like second class citizens.
And they will never admit that it is not a salvational issue. It is not above the atoning blood of Christ.
Personally I have not had that type nor seen that type of issue. If something is a "righteous" thing to do then yes it can be above the atoning blood of Christ. One cannot be in rebellion and under the atoning work of Christ. to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not it is sin. Unrepentant sin cannot be removed. Now whether something is sin or not is another issue or whether done in ignorance.
If someone (pastor or ministry) sees a person in rebellion to something they view as a righteous standing issue. Yes... they should call them to repentance. Guess what that is JUDGING the situation and that is biblical. Shunning if it comes to that is also biblical. I would have to be told shown what "mistreat" is. Everything should be done in love and respect.
I hope you respond to my previous post, before this one. but now that I have posed my own questions, here goes.
The bible clearly teaches that men should have short hair and women long. Period. That is what the bible says. It was important to Paul when he wrote it. he used words like 'ordanances' and 'everyone does it this way" related to that.
BUT nowhere does it say UNCUT. I dont teach uncut because I cannot justify that. I do not think one can simply reject scripture, tell God "not that one" and not be in rebellion. we all know where that word goes.
Long is enough. As is SHORT (for men). We should each be able to tell within ourselves what is which and if we are good with God. I dont make it my business to decide that for other people (my wife included).
Pants.
The bible teaches explicitly that men are men and women are women and ne'r the twain shall criss cross.... if you are one and trying to be the other, you are LOST. It is an abomination to God. Period. aint no way around that. Its bible.
BUT if I take a 14 year old girl out of the local highschool and march her into Macy's and walk into the Jr. Ms. department, and point at a rack of pants and tell her those are mens clothes, she is going to think I am purely and utterly nuts.
At the same time, my baptist Grandmother who died in 1990 at the age of 80, didnt own a pair of pants that I remember. Pants were mens clothes to her.
We need to get past some hangups, teach sound doctrine and give folks room to live for God within the safe confines of sound teaching. (Yea I realize this makes me left of a good part of the UPCI.... but not all of the UPCI)
As for my wife, first, she NOT ME is in charge of her relationship with God. I dont get a vote. We do talk, we do walk together, but at the end of the day I cannot and will not order her around and speak for her soul. I can be the spiritual leader in my home. I can provide sound teaching of scripture and insure my family is being fed in a congregation that teaches right. But at the end of the day, her salvation is in her own hands to work out.
My wife does not cut her hair, or wear pants or makeup. These are her convictions. We do not project our values on others one way or the other. We live our lives by the disiplines that we have formed from our own prayer lives, walk with God, and yes, the way we were raised.... but they are ours and no one elses.
One more thing. Makeup is YUCKY. period. That aint bible. but it is Truth.
Peace!
Wow! You are like a total moderate... I did not know!
Welcome to being right!
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Wow! You are like a total moderate... I did not know!
Welcome to being right!
Hoovie, I come across as being conservative because of how liberal this board is now! Back in the day I had WAR with the cons....
They left, I neither left nor moved right.... just saying...
I will say that while I am a moderate, I come from a more conservative perspective. I view the DOCTRINE that underlies the Conservative Oneness Doctrines as valid if sometimes miss applied.
So while I may not agree with someone like Elder Epley on some particular application, I respect him and what he stands for and do not act out like some on this board (and in this thread) have done with the intent of being disrespectful. I appreciate him and others like him.
So I am in some ways philosophically right of center but live by application right in the center of the center...
__________________ If I do something stupid blame the Lortab!
Hoovie, I come across as being conservative because of how liberal this board is now! Back in the day I had WAR with the cons....
They left, I neither left nor moved right.... just saying...
I will say that while I am a moderate, I come from a more conservative perspective. I view the DOCTRINE that underlies the Conservative Oneness Doctrines as valid if sometimes miss applied.
So while I may not agree with someone like Elder Epley on some particular application, I respect him and what he stands for and do not act out like some on this board (and in this thread) have done with the intent of being disrespectful. I appreciate him and others like him.
So I am in some ways philosophically right of center but live by application right in the center of the center...
Hmmmm... I hear you and like what you are saying. Even on OP Doctrine I don't think we are far apart. I embrace it. Just not convinced heaven will necessarily simulate a UPC General Conference!
__________________ "It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
Hmmmm... I hear you and like what you are saying. Even on OP Doctrine I don't think we are far apart. I embrace it. Just not convinced heaven will necessarily simulate a UPC General Conference!
Love the way you said that!
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
Linear Mode
