You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[Cracker Barrel]

HOLINESS

Nothing greaves me more, than a man who is known among us, who has da ear of the people, and considered to be a preacher's preacher, that has influence, that will not preach his convictions. You can say, 'righteousness' 'holiness' and 'separation' from da world' in your message but in today's relative world it could mean something totally different to a crowd of a couple or several hundred or thousands. I don't mean naming the 5 things that we are all against, but things that have crept in among us unawares. There is a need to make plain what you are preaching. There is a need to say it in a way that nobody misunderstands what you are saying. I want to hear what you are for, young man, but please tell us, what are you against!?! Wowii

There is a need for the restoration of the open pulpit. A pulpit that isn't fettered to a man that has a red hot heart to preach what the Holy Ghost lays on his spirit. Why ask a man to preach for you, if he can't preach da burden of his heart?. When a man is prayed up, prayed through, with a heart full of love for da souls of men. A love for righteousness. A love for holiness. A heart tender to the conviction of the Holy Ghost. Let him preach, let that man name it.

We use the scripture in teaching on prayer, saying "" Matthew 21:21, say unto this mountain, be thou removed.."" Name the mountain to God in prayer. Why not name sin? why not name compromise? why not name those things that "so easily beset us. Hebrews 12:1"" ? The verse that says ""let it not be once named among you"" let me ask, if the sin had not been known then how is the church supposed to be aware? of what or who to run from? I'm not contradicting the apostle, but trying to show, that sin was known, because a man of God named it. Sure it was shameful but the church still had hope as long as the preacher had liberty to make it plain.
""1 Corinthians 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?""
""Ezekiel 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand""

Our young men are savvy on the latest trends and fads, words that slip past us old Kahuna's, please help da church, not just by encouraging the down and out, not just by preaching about revival, and building faith for miracles, but brother, help loose those that are bound, by naming those things that are destroying from within. Preach against the queer looking purple pinstripe suits, the height water pants, the pink shirts, the pee wee Herman happy pattern bow ties. Those things that give our boys a feminine appearance.

Preach against the split skirts, the patterns in the hose, the gold in the hair the gold on the clothes. Ask those ladies to take off that shiny stuff from their garments and tie them on a rope and hang around their neck. They wouldn't do it because that would be jewelry. Well I want to ask you young lady, Then why wear it on your clothes? Wear something that's not embarrassing to your pastor, to your father, or that your fellow brother sitting on the pew wouldn't have to turn his head when looking at you from across the room because your skirt is too short and tight while sitting. Where in the world did all these Cesar headbands come from? They came from the pit of hell hatched out of Rome. Fix the church while you were there, preach that queer from behind the piano off the platform, and straighten that place out and have revival! We are not Romans and we are not Greeks we belong to the heavenly Jerusalem. Come on young man, tell us, say it, name it.
"" Isaiah 53:8, Who Shall Declare His Generation? ""

[SoLongSelf]

If there was a like button, I would click. I agree, and I know that is what I heard in the days when I first began to seek Jesus.

[Monterrey]

So is this another thread like one of the last where you are starting it to regret it later?

[Esaias]

Holiness = clothing and appearance? Brother, holiness is so much more than that. As long as we maintain such a low view of holiness, we will keep getting what we've been getting. The outside will look right if the inside is right. But just because the outside looks right, don't mean the inside is right.

[Monterrey]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Holiness = clothing and appearance? Brother, holiness is so much more than that. As long as we maintain such a low view of holiness, we will keep getting what we've been getting. The outside will look right if the inside is right. But just because the outside looks right, don't mean the inside is right.

Modern day phariseeism?

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Holiness = clothing and appearance? Brother, holiness is so much more than that. As long as we maintain such a low view of holiness, we will keep getting what we've been getting. The outside will look right if the inside is right. But just because the outside looks right, don't mean the inside is right.

The context was not the lack of inward preaching, but rather the lack of the outward. Son we are leaning on you to take the baton and hold on to the old pads and run with patients, and fight the good fight.

The fact remains, you can't be wrong on the outside and be right on the inside. Either.

All these other dummies, please ignore the gainsayers. They have exposed themselves as was the intention. And all those that listen to them will follow the blind leading right into the pit.

2nd Peter 2:12-
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children.Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them thanthe beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Cracker Barrel

The context was not the lack of inward preaching, but rather the lack of the outward. Son we are leaning on you to take the baton and hold on to the old pads and run with patients, and fight the good fight.

The fact remains, you can't be wrong on the outside and be right on the inside. Either.

All these other dummies, please ignore the gainsayers. They have exposed themselves as was the intention. And all those that listen to them will follow the blind leading right into the pit.

2nd Peter 2:12-
But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children.Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever
For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them thanthe beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Brother, I understand what you are saying. BUT - always a but - not trying to be a butt, but... - 'holiness' is something we as a movement have grossly misunderstood. We have to get the foundation right. Otherwise, we'll wind up miles off course, even though the ship will still be sailing, yet it'll be sailing to the wrong destination.

Standards of modesty and behaviour are not the be all end all of holiness. I think if we raise the standard to a Biblical level, to heart purity, entire sanctification (Psalm 26, for ex.), then the rest will fall into place. Too many have been given the false comfort that 'if I dress right, don't do this or that, and look the part, then I have holiness.' Too many have been given the false idea that 'preaching holiness means blasting jewelry and makeup and Hollyweird and public swimming pools.'

When was the last time you heard a message on Acts 15:9? That's a great text for a good old fashioned Pentecostal message, wouldn't you agree? I have never heard that verse preached, anywhere, by anyone.

We have to begin at the beginning, we have to lay the foundation first. My wife got the Holy Ghost and without any input from anyone she cleaned out her closet that night. I wasn't even living all that right (allowing certain things, I was dumb and uneducated, undiscipled in other words) but the HOLY Ghost taught her on day one certain things.

And years later she walked into an apostolic church, a 'conservative' one mind you, and was stunned and embarassed at how people were dressed, she said they look like they are going to a Pentecostal night club or something. But everything was 'within standards', mind you. Men and women looking like they are going to meet some high-dollar business man instead of the Holy God of all creation. Dressed for success?

But it will do no good whatsoever to blast away at external excesses unless and until the internal, heart impurities of pride and selfishness are blasted away. Jesus said FIRST make the inside clean...

[Cracker Barrel]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother, I understand what you are saying. BUT - always a but - not trying to be a butt, but... - 'holiness' is something we as a movement have grossly misunderstood. We have to get the foundation right. Otherwise, we'll wind up miles off course, even though the ship will still be sailing, yet it'll be sailing to the wrong destination.

Standards of modesty and behaviour are not the be all end all of holiness. I think if we raise the standard to a Biblical level, to heart purity, entire sanctification (Psalm 26, for ex.), then the rest will fall into place. Too many have been given the false comfort that 'if I dress right, don't do this or that, and look the part, then I have holiness.' Too many have been given the false idea that 'preaching holiness means blasting jewelry and makeup and Hollyweird and public swimming pools.'

When was the last time you heard a message on Acts 15:9? That's a great text for a good old fashioned Pentecostal message, wouldn't you agree? I have never heard that verse preached, anywhere, by anyone.

We have to begin at the beginning, we have to lay the foundation first. My wife got the Holy Ghost and without any input from anyone she cleaned out her closet that night. I wasn't even living all that right (allowing certain things, I was dumb and uneducated, undiscipled in other words) but the HOLY Ghost taught her on day one certain things.

And years later she walked into an apostolic church, a 'conservative' one mind you, and was stunned and embarassed at how people were dressed, she said they look like they are going to a Pentecostal night club or something. But everything was 'within standards', mind you. Men and women looking like they are going to meet some high-dollar business man instead of the Holy God of all creation. Dressed for success?

But it will do no good whatsoever to blast away at external excesses unless and until the internal, heart impurities of pride and selfishness are blasted away. Jesus said FIRST make the inside clean...

For every 1 preacher of righeousness there are 100s tearing down the fabric that hold the church on the road called Holiness. I understand quite a full understanding of Gods Holiness and our weak attempt at separation from the word but if we could only get mo of God. Half the battle would be solved.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Brother, I understand what you are saying. BUT - always a but - not trying to be a butt, but... - 'holiness' is something we as a movement have grossly misunderstood. We have to get the foundation right. Otherwise, we'll wind up miles off course, even though the ship will still be sailing, yet it'll be sailing to the wrong destination.

Standards of modesty and behaviour are not the be all end all of holiness. I think if we raise the standard to a Biblical level, to heart purity, entire sanctification (Psalm 26, for ex.), then the rest will fall into place. Too many have been given the false comfort that 'if I dress right, don't do this or that, and look the part, then I have holiness.' Too many have been given the false idea that 'preaching holiness means blasting jewelry and makeup and Hollyweird and public swimming pools.'

When was the last time you heard a message on Acts 15:9? That's a great text for a good old fashioned Pentecostal message, wouldn't you agree? I have never heard that verse preached, anywhere, by anyone.

We have to begin at the beginning, we have to lay the foundation first. My wife got the Holy Ghost and without any input from anyone she cleaned out her closet that night. I wasn't even living all that right (allowing certain things, I was dumb and uneducated, undiscipled in other words) but the HOLY Ghost taught her on day one certain things.

And years later she walked into an apostolic church, a 'conservative' one mind you, and was stunned and embarassed at how people were dressed, she said they look like they are going to a Pentecostal night club or something. But everything was 'within standards', mind you. Men and women looking like they are going to meet some high-dollar business man instead of the Holy God of all creation. Dressed for success?

But it will do no good whatsoever to blast away at external excesses unless and until the internal, heart impurities of pride and selfishness are blasted away. Jesus said FIRST make the inside clean...

I don't think it is fair to put the underlined comment in the same category as preaching on outward holiness. Was that not to with Judaizers trying to put unnecessary laws upon the Gentile converts? As has already been posted, Paul tells us how to not be outwardly adorned. I understand for many Pentecostals, outward holiness has been a place we hung our hats. Many have run the subject into the ground and have over emphasized outward holiness and neglected inward holiness, but do we throw the baby out with the bath water though and stop preaching outward holiness?

I get sick of hearing people saying that God judges my heart, and all the while portraying all ungodliness outwardly. The most important emphasis should be placed upon inward holiness, but the visible outward work should also be taught as a continuing evidence. Outward holiness should be taught, but not to leave the other undone.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

I don't think it is fair to put the underlined comment in the same category as preaching on outward holiness. Was that not to with Judaizers trying to put unnecessary laws upon the Gentile converts? As has already been posted, Paul tells us how to not be outwardly adorned. I understand for many Pentecostals, outward holiness has been a place we hung our hats. Many have run the subject into the ground and have over emphasized outward holiness and neglected inward holiness, but do we throw the baby out with the bath water though and stop preaching outward holiness?

What in the world are you talking about? Here's the verse:

And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(Acts 15:9 KJV)

The context is the gift of the Holy Ghost. According to Peter, the Holy Ghost baptism effects purification of the heart by faith. This is something I have never heard preached by any Pentecostal, let alone apostolic, minister. To forever link holiness with outward appearance is to shortchange folks. God offers heart purity as an effect of receiving the Holy Ghost, it is normative and apostolic and biblical, and yet we want to think in terms of 'holiness=clothing and makeup etc'?

I get sick of hearing people saying that God judges my heart, and all the while portraying all ungodliness outwardly. The most important emphasis should be placed upon inward holiness, but the visible outward work should also be taught as a continuing evidence. Outward holiness should be taught, but not to leave the other undone.

Did you even read my posts here on this subject? I don't wear a wedding ring, a watch, or any cloth necklaces for that matter. But that does not amount to a hill of beans without sanctification of the heart. 'Standards' should not be the definition of 'holiness', they should fall under modesty or basic godliness. We need to raise the bar, we ought to be preaching and experiencing entire sanctification, spirit, soul, and body, the whole nine yards.

imo