Submission? Or Power and Control?

[houston]

Originally Posted by Amanah

it is weird, I don't know anyone who dropped standards and kept the message, I don't understand how that works.

There are plenty.

[Captain]

Originally Posted by houston

There are plenty.

Maybe it's a matter of degree.

I've been in ultra-conservative and fairly "liberal" churches and have adjusted my standards - after 21 years - to something I feel is pretty balanced. More liberal than my old ultra-con peers would be comfy with but more conservative than in many ways than my liberal peers.

I have WPF relatives that proudly tout their lack of a TV but watch way more youtube than I do actual TV, but I'm more conservative in my approach to TV than most others in my church now.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by ILG

If you are asking if I believe the hardline, you must 1. Repent and then 2. Be baptized with a preacher saying the name of Jesus over you while you are immersed and then 3. Speak in tongues and believe in the Oneness of God to be saved the answer is no.

Are you Hindu?

[aegsm76]

ILG - just went to the spiritual abuse site, where you first posted the article.
Was amazed to find an article there(written several years ago), by one of my relatives where he wrote questioning certain standards in the UPC.
The issue I have is this article is well written and by someone who was a good writer and speaker.
But, what the article does not tell is the story of his life, after he left the UPC.
And it is has been a mess.
And I have seen this over and over and over.
I believe I will keep what I have.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

ILG - just went to the spiritual abuse site, where you first posted the article.
Was amazed to find an article there(written several years ago), by one of my relatives where he wrote questioning certain standards in the UPC.
The issue I have is this article is well written and by someone who was a good writer and speaker.
But, what the article does not tell is the story of his life, after he left the UPC.
And it is has been a mess.
And I have seen this over and over and over.
I believe I will keep what I have.

If you believe your life will be a mess if you leave, I'd rather you stay too.

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by ILG

If you believe your life will be a mess if you leave, I'd rather you stay too.

We agree!!!!!
Thanks!!!!

[ILG]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

We agree!!!!!
Thanks!!!!

No problem! For some people, staying seems to be the right decision, keeping standards seems to be the right decision. I am not here to judge that. For some who leave, they get into big trouble and they are better off being in the UPC. For those people, I would rather that they stayed because the UPC and standards seems to be a fence they need in their life. So, I am not here to destroy that. What I am here for, and many people don't understand, is to help those who are in a miserable mind prison find their way out. Fences aren't all bad. It's when people say "You need my fence or you are lost" and even more importantly, when someone believes they need someone else's fence or they are lost, that is an even bigger problem yet because it could be that that fence is keeping them from a closer walk with God for their own life because they are following a fence not create for them.

[n david]

Originally Posted by ILG

What I am here for, and many people don't understand, is to help those who are in a miserable mind prison find their way out. Fences aren't all bad. It's when people say "You need my fence or you are lost" and even more importantly, when someone believes they need someone else's fence or they are lost, that is an even bigger problem yet because it could be that that fence is keeping them from a closer walk with God for their own life because they are following a fence not create for them.

Not your job.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by ILG

No problem! For some people, staying seems to be the right decision, keeping standards seems to be the right decision. I am not here to judge that. For some who leave, they get into big trouble and they are better off being in the UPC. For those people, I would rather that they stayed because the UPC and standards seems to be a fence they need in their life. So, I am not here to destroy that. What I am here for, and many people don't understand, is to help those who are in a miserable mind prison find their way out. Fences aren't all bad. It's when people say "You need my fence or you are lost" and even more importantly, when someone believes they need someone else's fence or they are lost, that is an even bigger problem yet because it could be that that fence is keeping them from a closer walk with God for their own life because they are following a fence not create for them.

So lots of women out there who will have a closer walk with God if they just cut their hair?

Wow.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

ILG - just went to the spiritual abuse site, where you first posted the article.
Was amazed to find an article there(written several years ago), by one of my relatives where he wrote questioning certain standards in the UPC.
The issue I have is this article is well written and by someone who was a good writer and speaker.
But, what the article does not tell is the story of his life, after he left the UPC.
And it is has been a mess.
And I have seen this over and over and over.
I believe I will keep what I have.

I look at my former church members from my first church, it was an independent UC church, with a great move of the HG, people being filled and baptized, ect. Our Pastor dropped standards, his health was not a good, and he was getting weary of pressure that we were feeling from our youth group who kept up a constant barrage of why why why. People wore him down. At least that is what I think happened, plus I think he had a circle of friends who had become "enlightened"

I see former members on facebook, pics of them in bikinis, with Tattoos, drinking at the bars, they believed saved at repentance now, visited awhile back to see old friends, It was like being in a Baptist church, AoG would have been a big step up.