When Fashion Controls the Church....

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

That depends on if you mean Biblical according to a denominal interpretation or Biblical according to the Bible.

*grin*

I would have said it like this: It depends on if you mean Biblical according to interpretation (denominational, societal, cultural, subcultural, etc...) or Biblical according to the Bible.

And that will ALWAYS be a question...

[Newman]

Originally Posted by keith4him

Newman you have legitimate points, but the mission of the church is not us, it is to be outward focused.

The house of God is special? Newman the house of God is you, not a building, the days of the temple and the specialness of sacred building are long gone, would to God people act and be as spiritual all week long as they do those 3 hours on Sunday.

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Newman

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

Newman is always worth reading; sometimes she is even right.

This is one of those times.

[nathan_slatter]

Originally Posted by Newman

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

I don't know -- some religious traditions could also contribute to unbelief, angst, anger, and a general falling away. I can name several people now who refuse to go to any church except the one they were raised in -- and they are disenfranchised with these that they were raised in, so they go no where and have no relationship with God. They cannot see that God is much bigger than a building, denomination, or religious ideology. They can not see God outside the denomination of the church of their upbringing.

Traditions are neither bad nor good -- they are tools that can be used to edify or destroy. Sometimes it is best to shed those tradition remembering that shedding those traditions will make way for new ones that can also be used to edify or destroy.

[Thad]

Originally Posted by Newman

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

that was Brilliant! I could not agree more!
God created us with a need for community. it's like a well where we draw strenght from. There is a new statistic out that states nationally, only 18.9 percent of americans are now attending church on sunday. It's a little higher in the south and somewhat lower in the northeast. Anyway, the point I want to drive home is, as a nation,we are suffering and will continue to pay a huge price in the coming years for this decline in church attendance.
I understand that most churches don't preach acts238, but at least they preached basic morals and principles. It breaks my heart to see America turning their backs on the church, the greatest institution that ever was or will be.

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Newman

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

For one as sharp as your interpretation skills are, you missed this one. This is an anaology of the Church,

a spiritual building with us as living stones,

a spiritual body with us as individual members,

a family with God as Father and with brothers and sisters

[Pastor Keith]

Originally Posted by Newman

The House of God is special indeed. It is where God's people gather. "...that though mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth (1 Tim 3:12).

It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I read an article by a black jounalist in a major metro paper some time last fall. I could kick myself a dozen times for not responding. He wrote that he no longer attended the church of his youth because it wasn't relevant to today's generation.

He spoke of running the aisles and talking in tongues but said the church culture had set herself apart from the real people dying in the streets. He spoke of the women wearing fancy hats while life in the ghetto went on.

O foolish man that he was. He complained of the very church culture that had spared him a life of drug addiction; where statistically he was more likely to end up incarcerated than college educated; the father of half a dozen illegitimate kids instead of the dad to the two children being raised by he and his wife in his home.

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

I am all for traditions as long as they are taught that they are just that, it might be verified that what we do is good, helpful and maybe even the best way to live, but don't associate it with salvation or as something I must embrace to experience the grace of God.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Newman

Certainly there is some disconnect in condemning limited jewelry but embracing costly array. But I do believe that both miss the point that Paul was making. It's not about what you wear on the outside that matters most but the inside that counts. And so I enter this discussion believing that both jewelry and costly array may be ok given the right circumstances.

Nevertheless, I have got to admit that I am conflicted by the whole thing.

Dressing with Distinction
I do believe that the more "separated" from the fashions of the world; the more likely there will be a totally different culture in the church that occurs naturally as the body of believers creates their own society and ways to be legitimately noticed and recognized as distinctive from the uniform otherwise worn.

Is this all bad? Heavens no. Its refreshing to walk into the House of God and see good and wonderful people who are there to worship in their finest. It is so Norman Rockwell to walk into church as a family with one's Sunday attire that includes Rothchild coats for little girls and suits and ties for boys.

It is easy to bring your children up to live "above" the crowd at school when there is something wonderfully connected going on at church. It is like raising up royalty and isn't that what we are doing?

Toll on Visitors
HOWEVER....it is hard on visitors. And makes the visiting children stick out like sore thumbs. For some it works and when they come to Christ they can't wait to put on new clothes that signal they are part of that particular church body.

But for others; there is a discomfort that they can't get past. They won't be caught dead in a suit; even for their funeral.

And so we weigh traditional church clothes that promote a most wonderful feeling for those that wear them against the backdrop of welcoming others to place where they too can worship God without being embarrased by what they have to come to church in. There are no easy answers....

Message to Our Children
But I do believe we should cut the Conservatives slack who choose to worship God in their finest. It certainly sends a message to their children that isn't all bad.

The House of God is special as you are. No need to adapt to the lack of morality and lack of reverence of this world. Amen?

I definately share this conflict, Newman. Raising up children does have to be very important as does winning souls. Sometimes the two do seem to clash.

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Newman

I understand the need to reach out. But some traditions (such as dressing up on Sunday) might contribute to our well being in ways we haven't quite grasped.

I think there is a difference between dressing up and "dressing to the nines".

[Newman]

Originally Posted by keith4him

For one as sharp as your interpretation skills are, you missed this one. This is an anaology of the Church,

a spiritual building with us as living stones,

a spiritual body with us as individual members,

a family with God as Father and with brothers and sisters

I tried to say as much (though somewhat sloppy)... It isn't about 3 hours on Sunday but about our attitude towards others that are of the household of faith.

I absolutely agree that tradition should not be taught as salvation. I only point out that there may be some merit in some practices that promote reverance for God and his people.