Tattoos

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I get it, but I have told my kids when they were growing up.......Because I said so......usually when they had asked why over and over again.......LOL

And God being the ABSOLUTE authority doesn't have to answer the whys!

Right! And, we can find New Testament examples of this same kind of instructions being given by God to men. See Acts 8:25-29. No explanations, no reasons as to why or how come, no purpose given or expectations to look out for - all of the sort of things we would think to be common, normal and necessary bits of information necessary to complete the task - and so we could evaluate the results (more information and data). Nope - just the command to go and do it. Your understanding of what unfolded may (or may not) come later.

Being an engineer by nature and education, I really don't like these kinds of instructions. But, that is God's way. If I am going to get along with our God - it looks like I am the one who will have to do the adjusting!

[A.W. Bowman]

Originally Posted by Cindy

I get it, but I have told my kids when they were growing up.......Because I said so......usually when they had asked why over and over again.......LOL

And God being the ABSOLUTE authority doesn't have to answer the whys!

One more excellent example of this approach God frequently uses;

Consider the Garden of Eden.

God instructed Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Because I said so). He told Adam the consequence of doing so (You will die). At no time has God ever explained to anyone why He set that tree in the garden or why it should be forbidden to mankind. Until -

The answer was given by Jesus to His disciples: If you love me, obey my commandments.

No other reason is necessary!

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Timmy

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I'm not answering because I realize that you've beaten me in the debate and I just don't wanna face the facts!

Seriously Jason, I don't see what this has to do with the price of charcoal at Wal-mart. So...a guy gets a tattoo with devil horns, or whatever, and what.....that's supposed to make tattoos bad? With that logic, one could condemn haircuts (hey, not a bad idea), toothpaste, shaving, and mowing the yard. "Hey, did you see that guy? He shaved a form of a devil out of his whiskers. I think we should condemn shaving." "Hey, my neighbor mowed his yard and did devil horns with his mower. Hey Church, no one can mow anymore."

There's no connection, Jason.

Any time you wanna say the wise thing, which would be, "I've been whupped", you may do so!

NOW, your refusal to answer is proving my point that once someone takes the stance you have taken there is no more boundry, which is to say "in grace anything goes" at least in regards to our current topic of tattoos.

I do respect that you draw lines where the scripture draws lines. I know that your against the things which the Bible clearly defines as sin which will keep people out of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 , Galatians 5:19-21,etc).

I'm not calling you a greasy gracer, or trying to offend you, but I think the fact that you will not answer the question or declare one way or another if there is anything wrong with a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN (not a sinner, unbeliever, or lets even say a new convert still in spiritual immuturity) getting a tattoo of satan, a naked lady, demonic figures, skulls and cross bones, etc. Even though you yourself would probably not chhose such a tatoo if you decide to get one, just simply admit that you have absolutely NO bible for telling someone not to get such a thing. Again, all in the name of grace.

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by HaShaliach

One more excellent example of this approach God frequently uses;

Consider the Garden of Eden.

God instructed Adam not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (Because I said so). He told Adam the consequence of doing so (You will die). At no time has God ever explained to anyone why He set that tree in the garden or why it should be forbidden to mankind. Until -

The answer was given by Jesus to His disciples: If you love me, obey my commandments.

No other reason is necessary!

But we don't like to say that to others, or have others say that to us. If you love me.....But all that we do for God has to be out of love for Him. And children usually want to please their parents. I want to be please God more than I want to please myself.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

NOW, your refusal to answer is proving my point that once someone takes the stance you have taken there is no more boundry, which is to say "in grace anything goes" at least in regards to our current topic of tattoos.

I do respect that you draw lines where the scripture draws lines. I know that your against the things which the Bible clearly defines as sin which will keep people out of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 , Galatians 5:19-21,etc).

I'm not calling you a greasy gracer, or trying to offend you, but I think the fact that you will not answer the question or declare one way or another if there is anything wrong with a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN (not a sinner, unbeliever, or lets even say a new convert still in spiritual immuturity) getting a tattoo of satan, a naked lady, demonic figures, skulls and cross bones, etc. Even though you yourself would probably not chhose such a tatoo if you decide to get one, just simply admit that you have absolutely NO bible for telling someone not to get such a thing. Again, all in the name of grace.

Huh??? I still didn't answer it? What are you wanting me to say? I'm thoroughly confused!! Tell me what you want me to type and I'll type it. Am I missing something?

[Cindy]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Huh??? I still didn't answer it? What are you wanting me to say? I'm thoroughly confused!! Tell me what you want me to type and I'll type it. Am I missing something?

I don't think HE remembers. Was it about tithes?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

NOW, your refusal to answer is proving my point that once someone takes the stance you have taken there is no more boundry, which is to say "in grace anything goes" at least in regards to our current topic of tattoos.

I do respect that you draw lines where the scripture draws lines. I know that your against the things which the Bible clearly defines as sin which will keep people out of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 , Galatians 5:19-21,etc).

I'm not calling you a greasy gracer, or trying to offend you, but I think the fact that you will not answer the question or declare one way or another if there is anything wrong with a BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN (not a sinner, unbeliever, or lets even say a new convert still in spiritual immuturity) getting a tattoo of satan, a naked lady, demonic figures, skulls and cross bones, etc. Even though you yourself would probably not chhose such a tatoo if you decide to get one, just simply admit that you have absolutely NO bible for telling someone not to get such a thing. Again, all in the name of grace.

This is it. You approve of chrisitans getting tattoos, so I'm asking where do you draw the line or is there NONE because of grace?

Its simply NOW, and your a smart guy, all I'm asking is 1)where do you draw the line and 2)what authority do you use for drawing a line (if indeed there is one) and 3)if you answer that there is no line, or authority to draw a line, is not your default answer there is no line, no limit to what a christian may tattoo on their body, how big, how gruesome, how satanic, how lewd, how profane because in God's grace we can anything we want to our [exterior] body?

[*AQuietPlace*]

I don't think NOW is saying that 'anything goes' with tattoos. I don't think he thinks it's a good thing to get a tattoo of a naked woman. I think his point is that you can't say that getting a tattoo is wrong, period, just because someone might use the practice to get a naked woman tattooed on.

What he was saying below is that just because someone uses something in a sinful way, you can't say that the entire practice is sinful.

Originally Posted by notofworks

So...a guy gets a tattoo with devil horns, or whatever, and what.....that's supposed to make tattoos bad? With that logic, one could condemn haircuts (hey, not a bad idea), toothpaste, shaving, and mowing the yard. "Hey, did you see that guy? He shaved a form of a devil out of his whiskers. I think we should condemn shaving." "Hey, my neighbor mowed his yard and did devil horns with his mower. Hey Church, no one can mow anymore."

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

This is it. You approve of chrisitans getting tattoos, so I'm asking where do you draw the line or is there NONE because of grace?

Its simply NOW, and your a smart guy, all I'm asking is 1)where do you draw the line and 2)what authority do you use for drawing a line (if indeed there is one) and 3)if you answer that there is no line, or authority to draw a line, is not your default answer there is no line, no limit to what a christian may tattoo on their body, how big, how gruesome, how satanic, how lewd, how profane because in God's grace we can anything we want to our [exterior] body?

Ok, gotcha. I LOVE this subject!!! It's very difficult to limit this to a short post, but I'll try.

This very subject is the beauty of grace! And the beauty of it is, GRACE DOESN'T DRAW LINES!! The Holy Spirit indwells every believer and every believer is empowered and directed by God into "All Truth". This is where legalism ends and grace begins, because the legalist demands absolute lines, whereas grace trusts the power of the Holy Spirit to guide.

Jason, what I'm trying to say is...if you're going to insist that absolute lines be drawn on every single activity of life, you're going to exhaust yourself and make yourself crazy. You see, I don't need to investigate every single act to see if it passes the "sin test". I can, instead, trust that the Holy Spirit, which we know will "convict the world of sin" ("convict", not as in "pronounce guilty", but to "make aware") take care of all the questionable things.

What happens if someone disagrees with "Your line"? If you're not careful, you'll end up like Steve Epley who says that "You can go to heaven with a beard but not from my church." Wouldn't it be so much better to trust your brother and your sister to follow the Holy Spirit for themselves and believe that they are being led in the way God would have them go? If you can't get to that place...the place of trusting your brothers and sisters in Christ...you will make yourself miserable.

Years ago, my son was struggling with some things as he reached his teen years. He had made some bad decisions and wondered how he was going to learn all the right things to do. So I told him, "I can do one of two things for you...One, I can write a book for you and in it detail every single situation for all of life that you may ever possibly encounter and then tell you what you should do in that situation. Each time you encounter anything in life, just get out the book and find out what to do. Of course, the problem is, the book will bigger than this house. Two, I can teach you the principles and values of integrity and Godliness. Then you can live by those principles and make your decision based on those principles.

Jason, whether than wondering about an extreme hypothetical of a guy getting devil tattoos and horns on his head, which I have never heard of a Christian ever wanting to do such a thing, focus on allowing others to follow the voice of the Holy Spirit as He speaks into their lives. Rather than YOU trying to control their lives, let the Holy Spirit control their lives.

Let go. Stop trying to control the spiritual journey of others. Trust God. Trust others.