Do you hafta go through the pastor?

[tbpew]

barb,
after you grab a bite, why not post the uncomplicated simple conclusion of the matter that is established in your spirit and understanding of the scripture?

I have asked Mizpeh to do this and I do not want anyone to think I am playing favorites!

So to help serve simplicity....
I believe pastors (like all members of God's Kingdom) have authority over various spiritual entities (demons, principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness )
and
I believe all temporal things have various systems of authority in their administration,
BUT
what is the authority that a Pastor has OVER a member of God's own body?
What can a pastor command any member of God's own body to do?
What pastor can take liberty from and put a member of God's own body in bonds?

If someone was going to write up an article stating the benefits of having a pastor (kinda like a sales brochure)... what would it say?

[Nina]

Originally Posted by Rico

Based on the post he made it is pretty obvious, wouldn't you say?

Bro

Wouldn't You be interested in our esteemed Elders belief in the Scripture concerning this topic?

Nina

Originally Posted by Rico

Brother, I read your post. It didn't get lost in the shuffle. I appreciate the advice.

Excellent. I feel better now.


It's good to know that it was appreciated...taking it is completely optional, right?

I'm sure you've prayerfully considered the matter. If you haven't heard anything specific about a certain pastor, then I'd consider yourself called directly.

God has been known to do that from time to time. A little passage comes to mind:

Colossians 1:9-12:

9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Pay particular attention to the greek in verse 12. The King James interpreters have it as made us meet.The greek word is Hikanoowhich means:

1.to make sufficient, render fit
2.to equip one with adequate power to perform duties of one

God Bless.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Nina

Bro

Wouldn't You be interested in our esteemed Elders belief in the Scripture concerning this topic?

Nina

He is more than welcome to share his thoughts. Based on his post, it seems he is part of the "the pastor is the ultimate authority" crowd. I used to think that way and found out the hard way that pastors are just men like the rest of us. I'm not discounting the role of a pastor, but I am not so sure God intends for them to have as much power as the church has given them. Some of the pastors here on AFF seem to be very balanced in their thinking, which is a good thing to see. Any way I look at it, I certainly would not want to have their job in this day and age.

[Barb]

barb,
after you grab a bite, why not post the uncomplicated simple conclusion of the matter that is established in your spirit and understanding of the scripture?

What a wordsmith...whew!!

First of all, Bro. Pew, I apologize if I sounded condescending by saying that I feel we are making this a complicated issue. That is far from my intent. But I do think that sometimes we can and do attempt to put more into some very basic Scriptures.

I said "we," so I'm putting myself into that mix, too.

I have asked Mizpeh to do this and I do not want anyone to think I am playing favorites!

LOL!!

So to help serve simplicity....
I believe pastors (like all members of God's Kingdom) have authority over various spiritual entities (demons, principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness )
and
I believe all temporal things have various systems of authority in their administration,
BUT
what is the authority that a Pastor has OVER a member of God's own body?
What can a pastor command any member of God's own body to do?
What pastor can take liberty from and put a member of God's own body in bonds?

In my humble and layperson's point of view, I am not in favor of a pastor or anyone "commanding" anyone to do anything.

Pastors who set limits or boundaries or guidlelines, and do so out of love for the people, are not "commanding," but are teaching and instructing as they feel led or directed.

Anyone can command anything they want, but who can make a person do this or that, short of holding a gun on them?! Anyone who has time to "police" the Saints has too much time on their hands, IMHO...

I believe that pastors have the right to expect those in leadership positions to abide by certain principles, but command?! No, I think that is the wrong word here...

Re taking liberty and putting in bonds, I think I posted a few days ago my understanding of Matthew 18...that the Lord was instructing and preparing them re matters of Church discipline, using the words bind and loose, which in Hebrew are forbid and permit.

So, if you are asking, do I believe a pastor or governing body has the scriptural right to bind or loose (sit down or reprimand) another Saint of God?!

Yes I do...I know you do not agree...

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

If someone was going to write up an article stating the benefits of having a pastor (kinda like a sales brochure)... what would it say?

I have some ideas, but realized I am probably not the best person to answer this question

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sheltiedad

If someone was going to write up an article stating the benefits of having a pastor (kinda like a sales brochure)... what would it say?

Well, if the TV thing passes, instead of a sales brochure we could do a TV commercial like this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOPf1Eqxgrc

I think you need someone like this your life Sheltiedad.

Originally Posted by Barb

Re taking liberty and putting in bonds, I think I posted a few days ago my understanding of Matthew 18...that the Lord was instructing and preparing them re matters of Church discipline, using the words bind and loose, which in Hebrew are forbid and permit.

So, if you are asking, do I believe a pastor or governing body has the scriptural right to bind or loose (sit down or reprimand) another Saint of God?!

Yes I do...I know you do not agree...

Do they have the right to permit or forbid something beyond or short of what is Biblical in principle?

In other words, does a pastor by name's sake have a right to run it his own way or does he have a responsibility to run it God's way?

I could start organization X and call myself a Pastor, because I felt called you know, does this give me scriptural right to run my followers any way I want?

Or worse, any way anti-Christ traditions have always taught me?

Sorry Barb, I'm not trying to put you personally on the spot, but do you see where this kind of thing gets the perpetuating power of man's traditions?

I believe that the Apostles and early church did things radically different than the way 'the church' has learned to do things from systems contrary.

Is the UPCi and the like not a protestant system with a oneness Acts 2:38 band-aid? There is very little difference otherwise. At some point one must do their history to find out why. Where did the protestant system get its roots? It all stems from a harlot that is calling her daughters home.

Hopefully, that which makes this movement different will help us resist the call....no matter the cost.

Originally Posted by pelathais

Well, if the TV thing passes, instead of a sales brochure we could do a TV commercial like this one...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOPf1Eqxgrc

I think you need someone like this your life Sheltiedad.

You got it. The typical viewer makes no distinction....and honestly...who can blame them.