What Are You Reading Currently, 2.0

[Amanah]

still reading Will Durant's The Story of Civilization

also rereading Pagan Christianity, Viola/Barna

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

still reading Will Durant's The Story of Civilization

also rereading Pagan Christianity, Viola/Barna

My copy of Pagan Christianity is marked up and highlighted. But when I wrote them my review they didn't welcome it. Especially when I pointed out that the early Christians didn't charge money for their literature.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My copy of Pagan Christianity is marked up and highlighted. But when I wrote them my review they didn't welcome it. Especially when I pointed out that the early Christians didn't charge money for their literature.

[Amanah]

new book coming out as follow up

10 Years After Pagan Christianity – Looking Back

The book that some have described as “a bombshell dropped on the institutional church playground” released in January 2008. Pagan Christianity, co-authored with George Barna, took the pop Christian world by storm, igniting fury on the one hand and freedom on the other.

The book was unveiled at a time when interest in intentional, Christ-centered community and body life was high among 20s, 30s, and 40s. (That season ended in 2012, but I believe it will begin again in my lifetime.)

As was expected, Pagan Christianity set off a firestorm of misrepresentations, personal attacks, and misguided critiques, all in an effort to discredit the book and persuade people to never crack it open.

It also launched a series of conferences called Threshold which spawned Christian communities seeking to meet under the headship of Christ in different parts of the world.

Looking back at the book 10 years later, here are five personal observations:
1.I stand by every word of the book, even more so today than when Barna and I first penned it ten years ago. On that point, a few years ago someone spread a false rumor that Barna and I disowned the book. Completely untrue. Never happened. Don’t believe everything you read or hear, please. And always verify with the people being rumored about.
2.Despite the criticisms and truck load of straw-man arguments leveled against the book, it continues to stand unrefuted ten years later. (You can see the critiques debunked on this page.)
3.Unfortunately, the majority of people who read the book (or criticized it without reading it — ahem) still haven’t heard that Pagan Christianity is not a stand-alone book. It’s only deconstructive, and it intentionally doesn’t offer constructive solutions. Reading the book on its own, therefore, is like listening to a phone conversation and hanging up well before it ends. As a result, misunderstandings have arisen. The constructive sequels – yes, that’s plural, sequels – offer practical solutions. They can all be found here. If you read Pagan Christianity, please read the sequels so you get the entire argument.
4.The spoof video which poked fun at the majority of critiques of the book is still being watched and shared on YouTube. In the video, the book gets excoriated and ripped to pieces by outraged religious people.
5.George Barna and I talk more about the book in an interview we did, looking back on the volume (link at the bottom).

In closing, I predict that my upcoming book on the kingdom of God (due to release June 2018) will have a similar effect as Pagan Christianity did. It’s just as explosive, revolutionary, and hard-hitting. But unlike Pagan, the kingdom book offers practical, actionable solutions to the problems it addresses

http://frankviola.org/2018/01/18/10years/

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Amanah

new book coming out as follow up




http://frankviola.org/2018/01/18/10years/

I wouldn't doubt it.

Because what FV succeeded in was teaching people that church and its government no longer exists.

The book has lousy scholarship. It takes away, but never replaces what it removes. Most read this book without any guidance from trusted mentors, and elders. Anything that takes away and leaves you with nothing, doesn't help, but hurt. FV has no accountability to you, me, or anyone out there especially those who or naive, new converts, are the disgruntled or injured.

My situation with Viola was different, brothers and sisters brought the book to my attention and wanted me to review it. I did, I answered their questions concerning the book. Yet, I couldn't help from being concerned for those church family who had to go through turmoil because of Viola's careless book which doesn't actually answer questions, but causes way more question begging.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Doesn't the entire story come from the writings of Tacitus?

Does the book give accounts from other ancient historians?

Yes. Besides Tacitus, Cassius Dio and Seutonius are some I recall off the top of my head. I think there are other ancient sources and quotations, too. But, as I mentioned, most of all that is simply used in setting the stage.

In the Preface, the author writes:

Instead of relying on accounts written by witnesses-of which there were none in A.D. 9-who can transmit only what they as individuals saw, heard from others, or thought, the archaeological evidence permits us to examine the physical remains of the battle itself.

So, once the book reaches that point, the historical sources like Tacitus and Cassius Dio drop off, and the book turns to the archaeological discoveries as the primary source materials.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I wouldn't doubt it.

Because what FV succeeded in was teaching people that church and its government no longer exists.

The book has lousy scholarship. It takes away, but never replaces what it removes. Most read this book without any guidance from trusted mentors, and elders. Anything that takes away and leaves you with nothing, doesn't help, but hurt. FV has no accountability to you, me, or anyone out there especially those who or naive, new converts, are the disgruntled or injured.

My situation with Viola was different, brothers and sisters brought the book to my attention and wanted me to review it. I did, I answered their questions concerning the book. Yet, I couldn't help from being concerned for those church family who had to go through turmoil because of Viola's careless book which doesn't actually answer questions, but causes way more question begging.

Did you read Reimagining Church, a sequel to Pagan Christianity?

I think I posted about it here in this thread. I'll try to find it.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Did you read Reimagining Church, a sequel to Pagan Christianity?

I think I posted about it here in this thread. I'll try to find it.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=145

[votivesoul]

Going to be finishing up The Introvert's Way pretty soon. Only about 80 easy to read pages left. Not sure what I will pick up next. I've bought a bevy of books lately.

I'm thinking either reading the Life in a Medieval Series by Joseph and Frances Guis, a trilogy about life in a Medieval Village, City, and Castle. But I'm also considering The Souls of Black Folk by W.E.B. Dubois. Lots of options here.

Does anyone else have recommendations they'd like to bring to the discussion?

[Evang.Benincasa]

I ended up reading them all. Untold Story, Finding Organic Church.
Frank Viola is really NOT my cup of tea. Pagan Christianity came out the church family thought I would really like it because Viola was supposed to be big on house church. But what I came away with after reading it was that Viola was (to me) anti ministry. That everyone was part of the five fold ministry, and I mean everyone. I been a witness to ministries which told everybody that they were all pastors, prophets, teachers, evangelists, apostles. To see the blowback from that was heartbreaking. I should reread it because i read it when it first came out. I can just imagine how I would react to it this time, being older and much more ecclesiastically doubtful.