Ray Boltz????

[SDG]

I also find it interesting, sister Alvear ,that you say our thoughts can be sinful ... even if we don't act upon them ...

I know that in a practical sense ... most would say that if we don't act upon them it is not sin ....

but where did the thought come from ... almost always? From us.

There is a lot to be said about justification ....

Some preach a Gospel in which we must be pristine though our own works ... (and in this I include thoughts as a work of our carnal minds) to be "rapture ready" ... but we all readily admit that we are imperfect ....

If so then it is only through Christ that his Bride is without blemish, wrinkle or spot.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Amos your thoughts on the question I asked Sister Alvear ... if one is Holy Ghost filled does one no longer struggle and has overcome?

I ask in the practical sense ... not in the potential aspect ...

The New Birth isn't a magic bullet that immediately fixes everything in us that is broken.

Of course the flesh must be battled on a daily basis.

Carnality grows back like our fingernails.

But homosexuality is not your garden variety sin.

It is a deep perversion that flies in the face of nature and the order of creation itself.

Romans 1 makes that very plain.

I will say this--not every person struggling with homosexuality arrived there by the same path.

Children who are abused and molested and grow up confused as a result are a totally different case than those who go the route described in Romans 1.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Amos

I didn't read it anyplace. Just a personal opinion.

Thanks, I was just curious.

[Sister Alvear]

Daniel sometimes being transparent cause some to misunderstand us but I am just what I am...that is my character.
I am thinking of what beloeved John said...

John 1:8-9: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not is us”. The “we” and the “us” in these verses must refer to those who have established covenant relationship with God through Jesus Christ. As they prayerfully confess their sins, they are the only ones God has promised to forgive. (vs. 9) God will hear their prayers that their sins might be forgiven. These are “my little children” as John graciously and affectionately refer to them in the beginning of Chapter 2. So we should humbly and shamefully recognize that we do sin!

I am no more than a sinner saved by grace...the works of the law could not save me...althe atonment for sin was made through the blood of our Lord...no other blood washed or will wash away sins...

This past month I have struggled with forgiving someone/s...that spread lies on my family.

Dear ones...WE are all humans and we struggle...and yes I must completely forgive them or I cannot be saved for sin can never enter that city...but there is a daily struggle...
Sins are to be confessed and forsaken...we cannot excuse ourself by saying we all sin...

[Sister Alvear]

concerning our thoughts...I remember Sister Nona Freeman telling about someone that did her wrong..and she said I will not even tell you all what I thought about...we all laughed..
many ties however thoughts become actions is what I was trying to express...we must take captive our thoughts...

[Sister Alvear]

Please understand in no way am I saying it is ok to transgress God´s law...however we are not just talking now about homosexuality we are talking about sin in general.

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Amos

Well, unfortunately, you don't believe the Bible then. It's one thing to quibble about dresses and hair, but that one is ironclad.

If by "believe the Bible" you mean, believe that the Bible is infallible, authoritative, and the "WORD OF GOD", than you are correct

Originally Posted by Amos

I will say this--not every person struggling with homosexuality arrived there by the same path.

Children who are abused and molested and grow up confused as a result are a totally different case than those who go the route described in Romans 1.

And what Bible verse are you basing that theory on?

[Sister Alvear]

Notice gain, 1 John 3:8, “He that committeth sin is of the devil;” We are told in the first chapter that we all sin and if we deny such, we make God a liar. Therefore, if no classification or distinction exists, we are all of the devil and to deny such, makes God nothing more than a liar. This is obviously a false conclusion. Sin is classified by John: “If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (1 John 5:16-17). There is sin “not unto death” and there is “sin unto death” (1 John 5:17). The sin unto death is a sin that a brother will not confess that God might forgive him. (1 John 1:9).
In 1 John 1:8-10, John is saying that we have not reached a sinless state in which we no longer need the blood of Christ to cleanse us. He is establishing the need for our continually walking in the light (vs. 7) that the blood of “Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” A part of our walking in the light involves recognizing our imperfect state and confessing our sins unto the Lord when they are committed.

In the last few years I have done some extra studing on sin and the results of sin and sins that a person commits that affects only the person and sins that a person commits that involves others.

[Amos]

Originally Posted by Michlow

If by "believe the Bible" you mean, believe that the Bible is infallible, authoritative, and the "WORD OF GOD", than you are correct



And what Bible verse are you basing that theory on?

Sis, I am not going to bother debating Scripture with someone who denies its infallibility.

That would be pointless.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Amos

The New Birth isn't a magic bullet that immediately fixes everything in us that is broken.

Of course the flesh must be battled on a daily basis.

Carnality grows back like our fingernails.

But homosexuality is not your garden variety sin.

It is a deep perversion that flies in the face of nature and the order of creation itself.

Romans 1 makes that very plain.

I will say this--not every person struggling with homosexuality arrived there by the same path.

Children who are abused and molested and grow up confused as a result are a totally different case than those who go the route described in Romans 1.

I agree that we all battle our own sin giants.

To me carnality is carnality

I don't know if I think Paul was color coding sins in Romans 1 ... Amos.

He makes a case for what happens to man when he focuses on self ... and submits to the desires of his lusts ...

Among those unrighteous things is homosexuality but also he is just as adamant against those who love their selves over Him ....

28Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done. 29They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless

He is making a case, the thesis of his treatise per se, for why ALL MEN are sinners and deserve DEATH, imo.

verse 32 boldly states:

2Although they know God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

He continues his continuous thought in Chapter 2 .... (never knowing we'd separate his words into chapters) .... that we can judge others for their sins but that we are guilty of THE SAME THING!!!!!!

2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

He then tells the Jews that their circumcision and law obeying still does not make them any better than a Gentile ...

In chapter 3 he begins saying:

1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

Paul answers his own question saying ...

What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

He finally proclaims who makes us ... ALL SINNERS ... just before God ...

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.