Man made standards. Who do they think they are??

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila and Onefaith2,

You both are saying true words. But the elements belong in proper category of understanding. The divine nature of the new creature does indeed come through IF we stay rooted in Christ. Cease praying and cease seeking Spirit leading and the flesh rises up and takes over, and we do wrong. Peter said we are partakers of the divine nature through the knowledge he provides us. There are certain ways in which the Spirit works and there are requirements for us to abide by in order for the Spirit to be able to work.

Exactly to the bold! If we stay in Christ, it does come naturally but we don't automatically stay in Christ, due to our flesh nature

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by onefaith2

Exactly to the bold! If we stay in Christ, it does come naturally but we don't automatically stay in Christ, due to our flesh nature

Precisely. Amen. Paul said he had to keep his body under, for example. (Phew I spelt NUDER instead of UNDER there at first in a typo! )

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila and Onefaith2,

You both are saying true words. But the elements belong in proper category of understanding. The divine nature of the new creature does indeed come through IF we stay rooted in Christ. Cease praying and cease seeking Spirit leading and the flesh rises up and takes over, and we do wrong. Peter said we are partakers of the divine nature through the knowledge he provides us. There are certain ways in which the Spirit works and there are requirements for us to abide by in order for the Spirit to be able to work.

This is why Paul stressed renewing of the mind so much.

We are truely vile and wicked without the life of Christ.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

This is why Paul stressed renewing of the mind so much.

We are truely vile and wicked without the life of Christ.

This reminds me of the Old Testament statement of how no man knows how desparately wicked and deceitful the heart is. But that is speaking of unregenerate man. I wonder if that is applicable to us who are new creatures? I cannot see us truly vile and wicked if we are new creatures. But we do have to keep our bodies under, or else fleshliness will take over.

I see renewing of our minds more referring to the need to think about ourselves in Christ now, and not to think of ourselves as simply religious people not really different than a sinner.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by mfblume

This reminds me of the Old Testament statement of how no man knows how desparately wicked and deceitful the heart is. But that is speaking of unregenerate man. I wonder if that is applicable to us who are new creatures? I cannot see us truly vile and wicked if we are new creatures. But we do have to keep our bodies under, or else fleshliness will take over.

I see renewing of our minds more referring to the need to think about ourselves in Christ now, and not to think of ourselves as simply religious people not really different than a sinner.

I did say without the life of Christ. We are new creatures in our place in Christ but one can still walk in the ways of the old man. That old man is vile and wicked without a doubt. The mindset of old man must be put to death.

I was refering to without Christ we are left vile and wicked, coming from we have no reason for boasting or self righteous because without him we would be just a sinful as the sinner in the world.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I did say without the life of Christ. We are new creatures in our place in Christ but one can still walk in the ways of the old man. That old man is vile and wicked without a doubt. The mindset of old man must be put to death.

I was refering to without Christ we are left vile and wicked, coming from we have no reason for boasting or self righteous because without him we would be just a sinful as the sinner in the world.

I wondered if that is what you meant.

[onefaith2]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I did say without the life of Christ. We are new creatures in our place in Christ but one can still walk in the ways of the old man. That old man is vile and wicked without a doubt. The mindset of old man must be put to death.

I was refering to without Christ we are left vile and wicked, coming from we have no reason for boasting or self righteous because without him we would be just a sinful as the sinner in the world.

Amen.. that is why even though we are new creatures, we can still choose to walk in the old ways or the new ways. Its a choice we have to make which is what I was expressing to Aquila.

He believes that if someone fell away, they weren't truly saved. I just don't find that much in the scripture in regards to the fruit and the vine. The dividing will take place at the end, so who are we to know who is and who isn't?

The sheep and the goats were together and so were the wheat and the tares.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Aquila and Onefaith2,

You both are saying true words. But the elements belong in proper category of understanding. The divine nature of the new creature does indeed come through IF we stay rooted in Christ. Cease praying and cease seeking Spirit leading and the flesh rises up and takes over, and we do wrong. Peter said we are partakers of the divine nature through the knowledge he provides us. There are certain ways in which the Spirit works and there are requirements for us to abide by in order for the Spirit to be able to work.

Amen.

I'd like to emphasize however that it is Christ who separates one who has tasted of the heavenly gift... not ourselves. And Christ has assured us that of those given to Him, none shall be lost. Therefore those who are lost were predestined according to God's foreknowledge to be lost. They went out from among us because they were not of us. The true believer will be preserved by the very grace and power of God who is able to keep us from falling.

The very grace that saved us will eternally keep us. So, we should make our calling and election sure. If we see the works of the flesh and no fruit of the Spirit, we should seriously consider if we have truly given all to Christ. Some "think" they are saved right now and aren't.