Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[Sasha]

I attended a UPC church Oct. 28th. Loved it!!

[Sarah]

Originally Posted by Sasha

I attended a UPC church Oct. 28th. Loved it!!

So did I Sasha...and have for the last six decades! lol

[tv1a]

People can love bondage. More power to them.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by tv1a

People can love bondage. More power to them.

Many Israelites lamented the fact that they weren't in Egypt anymore when freedom proved to be tougher than originally though.

There is a specific class of people who was "set free" from bondage here in America, only to cling to that bondage under their new Masters.

.....And then yes, there are those who NEED to be told what to do in church. The NEED for something to "amen!" too that they know THEY are doing what they have been told but the poor backslidden souls sitting behind them are not.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Many Israelites lamented the fact that they weren't in Egypt anymore when freedom proved to be tougher than originally though.

There is a specific class of people who was "set free" from bondage here in America, only to cling to that bondage under their new Masters.

.....And then yes, there are those who NEED to be told what to do in church. The NEED for something to "amen!" too that they know THEY are doing what they have been told but the poor backslidden souls sitting behind them are not.

I don't know that I have ever said "ditto" to a Randy Wayne post but I can this one.

My anecdotal analysis after being in or around old time Pentecost the last 50 years or so is that most old time Pentecostal churches are primarily made up of;

1. Those born into the church and those who marry them.
2. People who come from lives / situation with little or no structure (abandoned by parents, substance abuse issues in the family, etc)

For those who come from secular lives with little or no structure the laundry list of legalism is a refuge for them providing a structure they have not had in their lives and is also a crtuch / measuring stick by which they can measure their position with God.

I also think these folks are more apt to follow a preacher who is preaching extra biblical doctrines and practices as they desperately want someone to believe in and put all of their faith in (a human being in addition to Jesus).

[Real Realism]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't know that I have ever said "ditto" to a Randy Wayne post but I can this one.

My anecdotal analysis after being in or around old time Pentecost the last 50 years or so is that most old time Pentecostal churches are primarily made up of;

1. Those born into the church and those who marry them.
2. People who come from lives / situation with little or no structure (abandoned by parents, substance abuse issues in the family, etc)

For those who come from secular lives with little or no structure the laundry list of legalism is a refuge for them providing a structure they have not had in their lives and is also a crtuch / measuring stick by which they can measure their position with God.

I also think these folks are more apt to follow a preacher who is preaching extra biblical doctrines and practices as they desperately want someone to believe in and put all of their faith in (a human being in addition to Jesus).

This is precisely an observation I made a few months back.

When looking around my current and past UPCI churches, I see a pattern of the "newly saved" being generally undereducated and from the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum. The only exception I see is for a couple terminally ill individuals who had family connections in the church (in one case, the spouse of a terminally ill individual was a "backslid" Pentecostal who'd been raised in the church and left...so falling into your category of spouses of those who grew up in church).

Having grown up in the church myself, I heard the threats that people in the world are selfish. They'll use you and abuse you. People "in the world" can't make real friends - their friends have ulterior motives.

While there's no doubt that Christ opens up a realm of love and selflessness that one could never know without Him - it's total crock that people "in the world" are incapable of exhibiting kindness, loyalty, and true friendship.

But this myth is self-perpetuating because all the "new people" in the church who buy into the legalistic approach come from backgrounds that are unstable, broken, and without a support system of loving friends and family.

Not that socioeconomic status means a thing in the body of Christ - but shouldn't we be questioning why the college educated, white collar populations seem to be underrepresented among our "new converts"? Is there a reason why those who are more successful in their education and professions don't seem to buy into the UPCI dogma? (And I'm not saying that blue collar persons can't be successful, but often times "moving up" in blue collar professions means moving into management, which I would say turns them white collar.)

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Real Realism

... - but shouldn't we be questioning why the college educated, white collar populations seem to be underrepresented among our "new converts"? Is there a reason why those who are more successful in their education and professions don't seem to buy into the UPCI dogma?

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:

But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:

That no flesh should glory in his presence.(1 Corinthians 1:26-29)

???

[Barb]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't know that I have ever said "ditto" to a Randy Wayne post but I can this one.

My anecdotal analysis after being in or around old time Pentecost the last 50 years or so is that most old time Pentecostal churches are primarily made up of;

1. Those born into the church and those who marry them.
2. People who come from lives / situation with little or no structure (abandoned by parents, substance abuse issues in the family, etc)

For those who come from secular lives with little or no structure the laundry list of legalism is a refuge for them providing a structure they have not had in their lives and is also a crtuch / measuring stick by which they can measure their position with God.

I also think these folks are more apt to follow a preacher who is preaching extra biblical doctrines and practices as they desperately want someone to believe in and put all of their faith in (a human being in addition to Jesus).

In our church there are people from every area of life...doctors, lawyers, politicians, and the like.

Just sayin'...

[Real Realism]

Originally Posted by Barb

In our church there are people from every area of life...doctors, lawyers, politicians, and the like.

Just sayin'...

New converts?

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Barb

In our church there are people from every area of life...doctors, lawyers, politicians, and the like.

Just sayin'...

I never said there weren't any. However I think you will admit that if you look at old time pentecost as a whole they are very much the exception and not the rule.

There is nothing wrong with being a refuge for people from difficult and unstructured backgrounds. The church I attend now specializes in that. While we do have a broadening demographic now with a lot of 30ish couples with kids the largest demographic of our church is young folks who come from every background imaginable with few of them being ideal.

My point was that when those type folks come to the Lord in an old time Pentecostal church the legalism is attractive to them as something concrete they visibly see and do that seperates them from their old life and is also a measuring stick for their walk with God.

Then by the time they might be spiritually mature enough to see that the legalism is wrong it is too late because they have been psychologically conditioned by hundreds or thousands of hours of teaching/ preaching.