Original Sin - Page 25

mfblume · #**241** 02-16-2015, 12:18 PM

Not sure if this is a title we should not use, lest we confuse people, but has anybody heard of FEDERAL HEADSHIP of Adam? The federal headship concept means that if our country's leader forfeited the nation of another country, whether we liked it or not, our country would be put under that other country and we'd be citizens of that nation. That is the concept of Adam and us. He forfeited the human race over to sin. Adam was federal head! Jesus is new federal head.

thephnxman · #**242** 02-20-2015, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Not sure if this is a title we should not use, lest we confuse people, but has anybody heard of FEDERAL HEADSHIP of Adam? The federal headship concept means that if our country's leader forfeited the nation of another country, whether we liked it or not, our country would be put under that other country and we'd be citizens of that nation. That is the concept of Adam and us. He forfeited the human race over to sin. Adam was federal head! Jesus is new federal head.

I think that "Federal Headship" could use it's own thread,
Personally, I never heard of it nor would I define it as such.

Antipas · #**243** 02-23-2015, 01:36 PM

Adam isn't a real man. Man has been evolving on this planet for over 3 billion years. Besides, what justice would there be in condemning an entire species, bringing death, pain, sickness, and horror on the entire species merely on account of one being's sin? What most don't realize is, while Adam isn't a real man and never was, the spiritual reality Adam represents is indeed very real. Adam is a spiritual symbol that represents us all. In Adam, we all sinned. Therefore, in Adam our sin is found. We've all reached for that which God has commanded us not to seek. And for this reason, our innocence was lost. We've all been driven from our Edenic security and safety, the way back guarded by the "angels" of judgment, fear, and condemnation. As a result of our choices we have brought life's troubles upon ourselves. In Adam, we see our individual condemnation. And in Adam, we also see God's grace. Why? Because in the narrative God didn't kill Adam on the very day of Adam's sin as promised. No, instead, God took coats of skins and clothed Adam, and his wife, Eve. This symbolically represents the sacrificial atonement understood by the most primitive of cultures. Something dies in our place paying for our sins, taboos, failures... and ultimately we see this in the story of Jesus. God with us. God suffering with us. God dying with us. And in our identification with the God who is with us, we are set free and realize the eternal life that is God's desire for all.

shazeep · #**244** 02-23-2015, 04:24 PM

a hugely more creation-centered mythology, ty.
creation is continuous, and never stops.

thephnxman · #**245** 02-24-2015, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

a hugely more creation-centered mythology, ty.
creation is continuous, and never stops.

Mythology...that's about right.

shazeep · #**246** 02-24-2015, 07:23 AM

well, i used that word on purpose, as it is the correct one, and for your mythology also. Mythology is by no means lie. Mythology is not myth as we define the word now. You also have a mythology; a collection of oral traditions, written down. Every culture has them. So, mythology in that sense.

Now, we could quibble about timelines or whatever, but that really pales to me next to the more...fruitful pov that Antipas' pov suggests. In changing your mind, any new concept will be rife with apparent sticking points, like that one up there is for you. But if you will open your mind and overlook those, and seek the essence of the post, just for consideration's sake, more truth might be revealed. I grasp the spots up there that you are uncomfortable with; i might have put it differently; and yet you cannot prove any of his assumptions wrong, imo, even with Scripture. At least i don't think you can, i might be wrong. It is simply a different perspective. If it bears fruit, then it will grow and be pruned, and if it does not, it will burn, It's just that simple, imo. So, dismiss it out of hand at your peril?

thephnxman · #**247** 02-24-2015, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep

well, i used that word on purpose, as it is the correct one, and for your mythology also. Mythology is by no means lie. Mythology is not myth as we define the word now. You also have a mythology; a collection of oral traditions, written down. Every culture has them. So, mythology in that sense.

Spoken like a conservative atheist. (? ? ?)

I don't think many (if any) Christians would agree or support that definition.

mfblume · #**248** 02-24-2015, 07:43 AM

If Adam is not a real man then neither is Jesus/ Romans and 1 Cor speak of Adam as the antithesis of Jesus after Adam sinned. Jesus was a real man and his act of obedience made us saints. So, what's wrong with thinking one man's disobedience made us sinners? If one isn't true, then neither is the other. We can be in Christ and live even though Christ was a man. What's wrong with saying the other regarding Adam if that is true with Christ?

shazeep · #**249** 02-24-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Spoken like a conservative atheist. (? ? ?)

I don't think many (if any) Christians would agree or support that definition.

Christ has become hugely more real to me since i began considering this pov, espoused by Michael Fox and others. I was surprised at this, myself. I was skeptical. But it is just more..."creation centered" is the best way i can describe it. The many indications that we are death centered in our dogma just became too many to ignore. See that an Orthodox Christian would be completely comfortable, for the most part, with it, so your comment might be better said, "no Western Christians..."

yes, it is foreign for us--who are each alone in a room, right now, most likely--but that does not mean that God doesn't prefer it. The fruit will tell us--but i submit that more fruit must be born of creation than destruction, so, do the math, imo. These people seek God with a whole heart; make us look like part-timers, imo. The RCC calls them heretics, so that should earn them a hearing all by itself imo

shazeep · #**250** 02-24-2015, 08:56 AM

again, if you will either suspend the skepticism at the points you are uncomfortable with--or alternately, do your best to disprove them--you will see that the differences--whether Adam was an actual person, or just "Ruddy," for instance--do not really change anything in your daily walk, but just (hopefully) open your pov. If the point is to come to a more complete understanding of Love your neighbor, reflect upon how just re-reading the posts indicates the difference. We are a death centric religion