McMinnville pastor accused in suit of Defamation

[Holy Ghost HH]

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is cultural and archaic. Contextually comparing this scripture to Corintians is not justified. But you probably do that from the pulpit. You violate at least the blood and strangled part of this scripture if you don't kill your own pork, beef or chicken.
Not only that it could contradict acts if your not careful.
All of "the list" can be found in the 10 commandments and might as well be repeated as such.
To compact this to the culture of Corinth is a classic justification for a learned conviction. Noticed I said learned.
Do what you want as a man and dictated to your family what you desire. But to put YOUR convictions or YOUR standards on someone else based on cultural, historical and archaic doctrine is heresy.
So glad Jesus looks on the heart instead of me in my underwear while typing this in my recliner. But I digress.
Love Jesus, Obey his commandments and I'll see you on the other side benihin

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is cultural and archaic. Contextually comparing this scripture to Corintians is not justified. But you probably do that from the pulpit. You violate at least the blood and strangled part of this scripture if you don't kill your own pork, beef or chicken.
Not only that it could contradict acts if your not careful.
All of "the list" can be found in the 10 commandments and might as well be repeated as such.
To compact this to the culture of Corinth is a classic justification for a learned conviction. Noticed I said learned.
Do what you want as a man and dictated to your family what you desire. But to put YOUR convictions or YOUR standards on someone else based on cultural, historical and archaic doctrine is heresy.
So glad Jesus looks on the heart instead of me in my underwear while typing this in my recliner. But I digress.
Love Jesus, Obey his commandments and I'll see you on the other side benihin

I am having trouble following you here. Are you saying that acts 15 wasn't talking about idolatrous practices? I don't really see where acts 15 really has much relevance with church government or home government. I made a statement father's day, "We don't need more government regulation, but we need more home regulation". The problem we have in American society is a breakdown of the family and it is sad that supposed apostolics can't even recognize it.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

This is cultural and archaic. Contextually comparing this scripture to Corintians is not justified. But you probably do that from the pulpit. You violate at least the blood and strangled part of this scripture if you don't kill your own pork, beef or chicken.

In Acts 15:20 your saying the apostles were telling 1st Century Romans how to prepare their food?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Not only that it could contradict acts if your not careful.

So, where did the apostle have cooking classes for Romans? The Apostle Paul was trying to get Romans to kill their animals by draining all the blood? In the 1st century Roman empire butchering was done pretty much the same way it is done today. Animals had their throats slit. Pigs weren't strangled. Wouldn't that have been a job and a half?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

All of "the list" can be found in the 10 commandments and might as well be repeated as such.
To compact this to the culture of Corinth is a classic justification for a learned conviction. Noticed I said learned.
Do what you want as a man and dictated to your family what you desire. But to put YOUR convictions or YOUR standards on someone else based on cultural, historical and archaic doctrine is heresy.

Whoa! Where did this come from? My standards? My convictions? Acts 15:20 wasn't penned by me or the UPCI. They also weren't giving the 1st century Romans lesson on animal slaughter, food preparation, abstention of pre-marital relations, and covetousness. HH, not for anything, but your posts all say the same thing. You are a disgruntled customer. Hey, HH, everyone else is having a good time in Pentecost, you just need get over it.

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

So glad Jesus looks on the heart instead of me in my underwear while typing this in my recliner. But I digress.

More information that we didn't need to know. This is what Acts 15:20 inspire? I guess Adam and Eve were also cultural situation? So, in 2015 God would of let them wander around in fig leaves. Talk about a pendulum of extremes. So, HH, when you were doing "standards" did you take a shower in your suit?

Originally Posted by Holy Ghost HH

Love Jesus, Obey his commandments and I'll see you on the other side benihin

Standing in your soiled underwear?

[Esaias]

Wow. "Apostolics" who quote the Bible and write it off as "archaic".

Of course, those "gay affirming Pentecostals" do basically the same thing. We are definitely not in Kansas anymore.

Wow.

[revrandy]

Ignorance is no excuse with the law or the Word... looks like financial restitution was made to the young people and hopefully repentance and forgiveness as well...people have to get on with they're life... one incident in Oregon does not paint an entire movement as the same.... I will go back in my hole...

[Sean]

Loren, exactly, that is why the Lord chose a committee of 12 leaders, not just 1 Apostle.(why dont churches(heirarchy's), other than Mormons use 12 today?)

[Pneuman]

Originally Posted by Sean

Loren, exactly, that is why the Lord chose a committee of 12 leaders, not just 1 Apostle.(why dont churches(heirarchy's), other than Mormons use 12 today?)

Our church uses a council of Elders who collectively pray and make decisions together with the ministry. Some of them are in various forms of ministry, some are just trusted Elders, full of the Holy Ghost and faith.

[Sean]

With 12 leaders, if 1 falls, then they can be replaced without the whole thing collapsing in.

[Pneuman]

I don't know if we are on the original subject any longer. It seems this thread has taken the Apostolic rabbit trail, as most eventually do. Just a couple of words about the McMinnville issue.

I don't know if anybody else here actually knows Bill and Matt Davies. My wife and I have known them for years, used to attend services at their church occasionally, and hung out with Matt and the Davies girls as young people. My wife grew up with Matt Davies. I think Elder Elpley fellowships with them, or at least with others who do. The Davies' left the UPC around 15-20 years ago. The general reason that was discussed at the time was that Bill Davies wanted to be the Oregon Dist Superintendent, and when he didn't get it he left in a huff. Since I have left the UPC, I know you can't always trust what is floated, so what I do know is he was a great bit more "conservative" than even the rest of the UPC Oregon dist., which is very "conservative" to begin with.

So this Pastor is well known for his extra mean spirit, and for his ultra controlling nature. I could give many examples. The city of McMinnville is full of ex-members of this church that are beat up from the years they attended, and all believe they are bound for hell if they don't return to that church and submit to the abuse of this man. He often uses his pulpit to abuse members of the church. Some friends of ours who were UPC missionaries and long time Pastors and servants in the UPC went to that church after they retired (their daughter attends), and because they were UPS they were verbally abused consistently from the pulpit. We visited with them a couple of times before they passed, and they said it was like being in hell going to that church ... the Pastor demanded that none of the "saints" fellowship with these evil UPC adherents, etc., etc.

After we left the UPC we had several people come back to Jesus in our church who were former members, and some of the stories were almost unbelievable of the kind of abuse that happens from the pulpit in this church ... and if I hadn't heard it from multiple people who were unaffiliated I may have a hard time believing that a man could have this type of power over people.

I believe the issues is not just that people did work around the church for no pay, but that the Davies actually used labor in their personal businesses from church people without pay ... which is a common occurrence in this church. In addition, it wasn't just defamation of character, the Pastor demanded that nobody in the church d business with the man who is suing as well. I think he has a pretty good case. Unfortunately The Davies' have the money to pay for a very good attorney, don't know if the other guy does.

[Holy Ghost HH]

Originally Posted by Pneuman

I don't know if we are on the original subject any longer. It seems this thread has taken the Apostolic rabbit trail, as most eventually do. Just a couple of words about the McMinnville issue.

I don't know if anybody else here actually knows Bill and Matt Davies. My wife and I have known them for years, used to attend services at their church occasionally, and hung out with Matt and the Davies girls as young people. My wife grew up with Matt Davies. I think Elder Elpley fellowships with them, or at least with others who do. The Davies' left the UPC around 15-20 years ago. The general reason that was discussed at the time was that Bill Davies wanted to be the Oregon Dist Superintendent, and when he didn't get it he left in a huff. Since I have left the UPC, I know you can't always trust what is floated, so what I do know is he was a great bit more "conservative" than even the rest of the UPC Oregon dist., which is very "conservative" to begin with.

So this Pastor is well known for his extra mean spirit, and for his ultra controlling nature. I could give many examples. The city of McMinnville is full of ex-members of this church that are beat up from the years they attended, and all believe they are bound for hell if they don't return to that church and submit to the abuse of this man. He often uses his pulpit to abuse members of the church. Some friends of ours who were UPC missionaries and long time Pastors and servants in the UPC went to that church after they retired (their daughter attends), and because they were UPS they were verbally abused consistently from the pulpit. We visited with them a couple of times before they passed, and they said it was like being in hell going to that church ... the Pastor demanded that none of the "saints" fellowship with these evil UPC adherents, etc., etc.

After we left the UPC we had several people come back to Jesus in our church who were former members, and some of the stories were almost unbelievable of the kind of abuse that happens from the pulpit in this church ... and if I hadn't heard it from multiple people who were unaffiliated I may have a hard time believing that a man could have this type of power over people.

I believe the issues is not just that people did work around the church for no pay, but that the Davies actually used labor in their personal businesses from church people without pay ... which is a common occurrence in this church. In addition, it wasn't just defamation of character, the Pastor demanded that nobody in the church d business with the man who is suing as well. I think he has a pretty good case. Unfortunately The Davies' have the money to pay for a very good attorney, don't know if the other guy does.

I know the retired couple you mention as well at the daughter. It was sad how he treated and elder just because of the brand he preached for.
Bill and Matt will receive judgement for those that left poisoned. I am now in contact with a lot of "backsliders" we were forbidden to talk to. Now I know why. There are 2 sides to every story and Bill didn't want us to know the other side. One got booted for not paying 10% and the mandatory 5% offering.
Notice my avatar is their tithe envelope. 10% and 5% right off the top. Required to make it to heaven. If you don't pay then you owe back before you can be right. That is preached.
I am so glad I got booted. Bill and Matt are backsliders preaching false doctrine. So I would not consider them brothers let alone true believers.
Just my 4 cents. It was around 2002 when he quit the UPCI. Took his ball and went home.
They have 3 of the best in Oregon for attorneys. The funny thing about that is they are paying a lot to defend but Jim has pockets as well. God is good. They will think twice about bashing someone else again.