My Take On Illegal Immigration

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How does that address what I have been saying that it's not true Americans don't want any of these jobs?

Current immigration policies are completely out of sync with the U.S. economy’s demand for workers who fill less-skilled jobs, especially in the case of Mexican workers. While U.S. immigration policies present a wide array of avenues for immigrants to enter the United States, very few of these avenues are tailored to workers in less skilled occupations. It should come as no surprise, then, that immigrants come to or remain in the United States without proper documentation in response to the strong economic demand for less-skilled labor.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 48 percent of all job openings, some 27 million positions, between 2002 and 2012 “are expected to be held by workers who have a high school diploma or less education.”

Given that 12.5 percent of native-born adults age 25 and older lacked a high school diploma in 2003, compared to 32.8 percent of the foreign-born, it is clear that a large number of less-skilled jobs will be filled by immigrants.

According to the 2003 American Community Survey, Mexicans comprised 30.7 percent of all foreign born workers in the United States, but amounted to 88.8 percent of the foreign-born labor force in “farming, fishing, and forestry”; 60.2 percent in “construction and extraction”; and 51.6 percent in “building and grounds cleaning and maintenance.”

Only one of the five categories of visas for permanent immigration status is tailored to less-skilled workers, and it is capped at 5,000 visas per year.

Only two of the 16 employment-based visa categories for temporary immigrant status are available to workers in industries that require little or no formal training. One (H2A) is restricted to agricultural workers and the other (H2B) is not only capped at 66,000, but is limited to “seasonal” or otherwise “temporary”
work that is defined so restrictively as to disqualify workers in many industries.

Originally Posted by Praxeas

How does that address what I have been saying that it's not true Americans don't want any of these jobs?

Immigrant workers fill jobs that are currently going unfilled because the large majority of Americans are over-qualified and are unwilling to take these jobs. While 31 percent of foreign-born workers age 25 and over held a bachelor’s degree or more in 2005, many less educated immigrants come to the U.S. because there is a high demand for such workers in important lower-skilled sectors of our economy.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, among the 20 occupations expected to experience the largest job growth during the 2004-2014 period, 10 will require only short-term on-the-job training (not a high school or college education): salespersons, food preparation and serving workers, cashiers, janitors, waiters and waitresses, nursing aides, receptionists, security guards, office clerks, teacher assistants, home health aides, personal and home care aides, truck drivers, and groundskeepers. Overall, 45 percent of total job openings in the 2004-2014 period are expected to be filled by workers who have a high school diploma or less education. Given that native-born workers are more likely than immigrants to have a high school diploma, vocational training, or several years of college – and that the native-born population is rapidly growing older as the baby boomers reach retirement age and birthrates decline – less-skilled immigrants are needed to fill these positions.

It also is important to note that there is no correlation between increased immigration and the displacement of U.S. workers. In fact, immigration augments the U.S. labor force and creates new jobs. As a 2005 study from the Immigration Policy Center explains, “immigrant workers serve as a valuable complement to the growing proportion of the native-born workforce that is not well matched by age or education with many of the less-skilled jobs that the U.S. economy generates. Moreover, the immigrant workers who fill these jobs further increase the demand for labor through their consumer purchases, investments, and tax payments, all of which create additional new jobs.” Rather than cost American workers their jobs, immigration and comprehensive immigration reform, will help create jobs.

Legitimate concerns about the impact of immigration on the poorest Americans should not be addressed by penalizing even poorer immigrants. Instead, we should promote policies, such as improving our education system, that enable Americans to be more productive with high-wage skills.

We must not forget that the gains to immigrants coming to the United States are immense. Immigration is the greatest anti-poverty program ever devised. The American dream is a reality for many immigrants who not only increase their own living standards but who also send billions of dollars of their money back to their families in their home countries—a form of truly effective foreign aid.
America is a generous and open country and these qualities make America a beacon to the world. We should not let exaggerated fears dim that beacon.

[berkeley]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Halliburton's former engineering and construction subsidiary has a contingency contract with the Department of Homeland Security to construct detention facilities in the event of a national emergency, according to WND columnist Jerome Corsi.

As Corsi reported last week, President Bush recently signed a little-reported National Security and Homeland Security Directive granting extraordinary powers to the president in the event of a declared national emergency, apparently without congressional approval or oversight.


Houston-based KBR was awarded an initial $385 million contract in January 2006 for one year, with four one-year options extended into 2007. KBR held a previous emergency detention contract with ICE from 2000 to 2005.
ICE spokeswoman Jamie Zuieback told Corsi the primary intent of the contract was to build temporary detention facilities that could be used in the event of a mass migration crisis, but she confirmed the facilities could be employed in national emergencies, including natural disasters.



"The idea of the KBR contract is to support the Army Corp of Engineers in case we experienced a sudden mass immigration and we had to respond quickly," she said. "We would need immediate detention facilities in the form of temporary housing that would enable us to determine if the large numbers of illegal immigrants were political or economically motivated, or if they were criminals or terrorists."


Corsi reported last week the May 9 directive signed by Bush concentrates an unprecedented amount of emergency authority in the office of the president, specifying the chief executive would have the authority to direct "National Essential Functions" of all federal state, local, territorial and tribal governments, as well as private sector organizations in the event of a national emergency.


The directive loosely defines "catastrophic emergency" as "any incident, regardless of location, that results in extraordinary levels of mass casualties, damage, or disruption severely affecting the U.S. population, infrastructure, environment, economy or government functions."


The KBR contingency contract appears to give ICE the ability to have detention facilities constructed under the president's direction in response to a national emergency as declared under the new directive.
ICE's Zuieback said she was not familiar with the directive, and at her request, Corsi e-mailed her the link to the White House's posting of the directive.


The White House has not responded to a request for comment on the story about the directive.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=55925

Prax.. the answer to illegal immigration!!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by HeavenlyOne

You are asking me why I posted it. Is there a rule that says my post has to have something to do with yours or something? Is there a rule that says I have to make sense?

Usually, when I read posts that don't make sense, I just disregard them. If mine don't make sense to you, please do just that.

Im not asking you because there is a rule. Im asking you because Im trying to have a dialog with you that makes sense...a two way discussion. If you don't want to make sense there is no rule that forces you to be coherent

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

And I addressed the amnesty issue or the issue of making them legal. I didn't see that his initial thread was about deporting them, but I don't favor deporting them.

However we do need to do something about businesses hiring illegals because the more they see they can do it the less they are going to hire citizens

Prax in certain pockets (like Los Angles) this is true. there are people who cannot get low wage entry level jobs that they want because of illegal immagration. however, it is a misconception that this is common everywhere. in fact the opposite is true in many areas.


also US unemployment is less than 5% right now. it isnt like we have a job shortage.

[Ferd]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

More than one side to every story, Ferd .... statistics and analysis are just that:


Researchers disagree on illegal immigrant cost-benefit analysis

Daniel, I agree with the idea that we dont really know. which is why I think we need to simply stop the flow of illegal immigration period.

get that done first then assess the impact of those in the country already, and figure out some sensable immagration policy overall.

we need extensive immigration to continue to stimulate the US economy. immigration isnt the issue. illegal immagration is.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by ChicagoPastor

You have to realize that the reason YOU are here was becuase of an "open door" immigration policy. We don't have that now. What the Senate committe is proposing while not perfect, gives those undocumented workers a chance to "get right" with immigration.

While it's not as open as the past, it's still plenty open, CP. And even with this current amnesty deal Congress is working on . . . I highly doubt very many ILLEGALs will take the steps necessary to "get right with immigration." You really think they'll turn themselves in to an Immigration office to file papers? Right. They may want to be legal, but they want to be given legal status free and clear w/out any penalties for their law-breaking.

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

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Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

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Care to post the source of these copy and paste responses? Thanks

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

We must not forget that the gains to immigrants coming to the United States are immense. Immigration is the greatest anti-poverty program ever devised. The American dream is a reality for many immigrants who not only increase their own living standards but who also send billions of dollars of their money back to their families in their home countries—a form of truly effective foreign aid.
America is a generous and open country and these qualities make America a beacon to the world. We should not let exaggerated fears dim that beacon.

". . . gains to immigrants coming to the United States are immense." "Immigration is the greatest anti-poverty program ever devised"??? Who wrote this stuff? Of course it's the greatest anti-poverty program . . . come as an ILLEGAL and you get FREE education; FREE healthcare; FREE gov't assistance. Even Bank of America will give you a credit card with a line of credit if you're an ILLEGAL w/out a Social Security card.

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

Specifically, any effective reform program must:

1) encourage the undocumented population to come out of the shadows and earn legal status

Never gonna happen. They'll never come out of the shadows and show themselves as ILLEGALs. Too afraid of either losing their job or getting deported.

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

2) provide fair and lawful ways for American businesses to hire much-needed immigrant workers

Once the ILLEGALs gain legal status, they'll become less desirable to American businesses because of minimum wage and benefits having to be paid. Besides that, there's already fair and lawful ways for businesses to hire immigrant workers. I worked @ a National Service Central for ICE for 3+ years . . . I'm not fooled by this junk. There are fair, lawful and legal ways already available. Businesses just don't want to spend the money for it since it's easier to drive by a Circle K or Home Depot in an unmarked truck and pick up ILLEGALs who will work for no benefits and a few bucks an hour.

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

3) reduce the unreasonable and counterproductive backlogs in family-based and employment-based immigration by reforming the permanent immigration system

Again, from experience working . . . the reason there are backlogs is not "unreasonable" or "counterproductive." Especially since 9/11, immigrants are subject to security checks. Beyond that a lot of reason for backlog is the high number of immigrants we allow each year.

The only reform that will take away the backlog will be to eliminate security checks and by dropping the number of immigrants we allow in the country each year.

Originally Posted by Fahrenheit

4) protect our national security and the rule of law while preserving and restoring fundamental principles of due process and equal protection.

This is laughable . . . "protect . . . the rule of law" and yet this "earned adjustment" or "earned legalization" (which is an oxymoron to begin with) completely goes against the rule of law.

We talk about keep the rule of law, but are rewarding the one's doing so.

I think I'm going to drive 120mph to church this afternoon and if a cop pulls me over, I'll just ask for a pass, since the rule of law is beginning to mean less and less these days. Laws are becoming more of a suggestion than a law.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Send 'em home.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

16,000,000 illegals. That's more than the population of most states. No documentation, no willingness to swear allegiance to this country.

That is dangerous.

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

That, dear PP, is a lot of TAXES we are not getting.

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Not according to Daniel. He says they pay taxes.

Originally Posted by Charlie Brown

Those that are illegal do NOT pay any federal income tax. Of Course they do stimulate the local economy some with their buying of goods, but federally they do nothing but take.

____________________________________

This is what happens when your politics is shaped by the ignorance and xenophobic hate-filled venom spewed by some on TALK RADIO ...

Gentlemen, if you're going to be intellectually dishonest ... bow out of this conversation ...

Fact is a growing number of illegals pay FEDERAL TAXES .... STOP THE FALLACIOUSNESS ...

___________________________________

Illegal Immigrants File Income Tax Forms

By EUNICE MOSCOSO
Cox News Service
Tuesday, April 17, 2007

WASHINGTON — As Americans scramble to file their taxes by Tuesday's deadline, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are also paying Uncle Sam.


The number of filings this year could be a record as illegal immigrants try to establish a history of work and paying taxes in the United States in hopes of qualifying for a future legalization, immigrant advocates say.

"If they hope to adjust their status, they need to show good moral character ...(and) presence in the United States. Having filed their taxes helps to show both of those," said Karen Herrling, staff attorney at the Catholic Legal Immigration Network, Inc.


In addition, she said that many undocumented immigrants want to be "fine, upstanding participants in society" and paying taxes shows a commitment to the United States and establishes an employment history.
But others are highly critical of this practice, saying that the government should be punishing illegal behavior and not helping illegal immigrants become further entrenched into American society.


"The federal government is legitimizing illegal immigration," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a Washington think tank that advocates lower levels of immigration. "The U.S. Treasury is cutting a check to the U.S. address of this illegal immigrant. Anything that legitimizes the presence of an illegal immigrant is bad. It undermines efforts at enforcing the law."
In addition, he said that illegal immigrants are filing tax returns for the sole purpose of receiving refunds.
"They're not trying to pay their taxes, they're trying to get a refund," Krikorian said.


The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) allows foreign citizens to file income tax returns by using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN). The practice started in 1996 when about 60,000 ITIN numbers were issued. Last year, the number exceeded 1.5 million, the highest of any year. In total, more than 10 million ITIN numbers have been issued.
In order to get an ITIN, a foreign resident must present a passport or two identification documents that could include a foreign birth certificate, a foreign driver's license or a foreign military ID.


The IRS does not track the legal status of tax filers so it is unknown how many of the ITIN holders are in the country illegally, but it is generally believed that the vast majority are illegal immigrants. The total refunds given to ITIN filers from 1996 to 2003 totaled $23 billion, the IRS said.
Nancy Mathis, a spokeswoman for the agency, said the tax code created by Congress makes no reference to legal or illegal immigrants. "The tax code is silent on the issue of immigration status. But it is not silent on the issue of tax obligation," she said. "If a person has U.S.-based income, they must pay U.S. taxes."


In response to criticism that the IRS is aiding illegal immigration, Mathis said: "The purpose of the IRS is to administer the tax laws written by Congress. The tax laws written by Congress do not distinguish between legal or illegal immigrants or legal and illegal money."
Robert W. Alcorn, a CPA in Dallas who assists immigrants in filing taxes, said that he encourages clients to do so for many reasons, including that it could establish proof of presence in the country, proof of marital status, and demonstration of good moral character. All those could help an immigrant trying to obtain legal status.


Alcorn and other immigration experts say that the increase in ITIN tax filings is caused in part by the possibility of an immigration reform bill in Congress. Lawmakers are poised to debate a major immigration measure that would open more avenues for illegal immigrants to become legal residents and citizens. President Bush supports such a program.


In addition, getting an ITIN number can be useful for many other purposes, including obtaining a mortgage and opening a bank account, Alcorn said.
"If you do your return and get your ITIN number, now you have tax returns. Now you can go buy a house. Now you can open a bank account," he said.
Using the ITIN numbers for such purposes has been a source of controversy.


Bank of America felt a backlash earlier this year after a newspaper article detailed its pilot program in the Los Angeles area to offer credit cards to people without Social Security numbers. The bank accepts other ID including the ITIN or a "matricula consular" card issued by the Mexican Consulate.


Groups pushing for a crackdown on illegal immigration demanded a Bank of America boycott, staged protests, and started e-mail writing campaigns to lawmakers.


The protest prompted Bank of America's CEO Kenneth Lewis to issue a defense editorial in the Wall Street Journal, saying that the bank "does not deliberately market financial products and services to illegal immigrants from any country."


Another leading bank, Citigroup, Inc., has been issuing credit cards to people without Social Security numbers since 1994.

________________________________


From the IRS website:


ABOUT ITINS

What is an ITIN?
An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. It is a nine-digit number that always begins with the number 9 and has a 7 or 8 in the fourth digit, example 9XX-7X-XXXX.


IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).


ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have U.S. tax return and payment responsibilities under the Internal Revenue Code.

Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

[chaotic_resolve]

Originally Posted by chaotic_resolve

Again, from experience working . . . the reason there are backlogs is not "unreasonable" or "counterproductive." Especially since 9/11, immigrants are subject to security checks. Beyond that a lot of reason for backlog is the high number of immigrants we allow each year.

The only reform that will take away the backlog will be to eliminate security checks and by dropping the number of immigrants we allow in the country each year.

Also, ICE workers must interview and speak with the individual seeking to migrate, along with family members or other references posted on the applications. And many times it's very hard to get in contact with these individuals. It's not like here in the US or other high-tech countries where everyone and their 2-year old has a cell phone. Many we worked with did not send the application themselves, but worked through a non-profit immigration center. So we'd contact the center and have to wait for them to get in contact with the person desiring immigration to set up an interview with us.

There's more to it than just filling out an application, submitting it and BOOM! you're a US Citizen or have some immigration status.