Your tithes were already paid. - Page 28

Sean · #**271** 10-23-2015, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Sean,
please consider this commentary I have comprised.

2Corinthians 3:1-18 (KJV)

1.Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2. Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3. For as much as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Paul was saying, that these people represent what he preached in word not a Law of stone that he gave them. But it was received by the preached word of God into their hearts.

4. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6. Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
This is another confirmation of what he just said. He didn't telepathically transmit these things to them by osmosis in the Spirit, He Preached To Them.

7. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:The glory was going to be done away from the face of moses.

8. How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?The Spirit Anointed preaching of the Word of God.

9. For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
The ministering of the Word of God is so much better than what they had Because these things were engraven in stone, But God's man Preaches What sayeth the Spirit, " He that have an ear Let him hear what the spirit sayeth unto the church."

10. For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. There was a better thing coming than tablets of stone_ The Spirit Anointed Preached Word of God..

11. For if that which is done away was glorious, how much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12. Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
The Apostole is saying that he has no doubt that the things he has said are greater than those Holy things once received in old time because it was done by the Spirit. Now he has no problem preaching with Great Plainness.

13. And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not steadfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
Not Like Moses who had to wear a vail to convice the people the glory still remained even though it was gone.

14. But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.Now through Christ we are able to understand and hear plainly but then they could not because the veil kept them from understanding.

15. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
In these verses the vail is a blinding element upon the heart from understanding. Even today the Jew are Blind to the Spiritual truths in the Law.

16. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
when Israel (IT) turns to God the vail will be taken away and they will be restored.

17. Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Sean, these versus only point out that the ministering of the Word in the spirit are superior to writing the Law on Tables of Stone. This actually is a great chapter that we look to debate the prederist. (bless their holy name)

Because it states and confirms clearly that Israel will be restored. They were not cut off at 70ad permenantly..

Bro Perez, you used too much commentary to make a point. It looks like you are forcing your opinion, rather than directing the reader to formulate the opinion of the writer.

I teach the preterists this same stuff.

They are big on commentary(one page for each verse) to explain their zany ideas.

I respect your opinion, but I first saw what you just did in my face to face debates with the Hebrew Roots guys that live in my area.

The problem is....Moses' face was not what was abolished. It was the tables of stone.

Now, observe the tiny bit of commentary I used here....

Sean · #**272** 10-23-2015, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Okay bro....

2 Corinthians 3

3 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone(ten commandments), but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones(10 commandments), was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory(10 commandments) was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation(10 commandments) be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away(10 commandments) was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished(10 commandments)

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament(entire O.T.) which vail is done away in Christ.

.

Sean · #**273** 10-23-2015, 06:07 PM

That is how we are to direct our students to understanding THEIR Bible.

Sean · #**274** 10-23-2015, 06:11 PM

When I teach souls, I like to let them read from their perspective and I interject like I did above, from time to time. They love learning this way and this method helps them understand what they are reading, without me lecturing them on what a passage means.

J.A. Perez · #**275** 10-23-2015, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

That is how we are to direct our students to understanding THEIR Bible.

Sean,
I was talking to you and you are my friend not my student. This Chapter does not show the abolishing of the ten Commandments. It shows the superiority of the Spirit Anointed Preached Word of God compared to the Tablets read by Moses with a veil on his face, and the restoration of Israel. The reason I drove the point home is so as to provide you no wiggle room.

Sean · #**276** 10-23-2015, 06:15 PM

I cant resist.....

Now preterists, on the other have have folks read this......

Revelation 22

22 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

The preterists tell their students that this stuff they just read is not real.

The students scratch their heads and their jaws drop.....

Then the preterist starts his metaphorical, 2 hour explanation to make this verse turn to something they are not reading.....LOL

Sean · #**277** 10-23-2015, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.A. Perez

Sean,
I was talking to you and you are my friend not my student. This Chapter does not show the abolishing of the ten Commandments. It shows the superiority of the Spirit Anointed Preached Word of God compared to the Tablets read by Moses with a veil on his face.. The reason I drove the point home is so as to provide you no wiggle room.

Just compare the 2 opinions, bro. Perez.

The very fact that you used much more commentary shows me you are forcing your opinion, rather than letting the passage explain itself.

J.A. Perez · #**278** 10-23-2015, 06:18 PM

You guys complain about not getting something exhaustive then when one of us provide it Typed by our own hand and not cut and pasted, its too much.

mfblume · #**279** 10-23-2015, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

When I teach souls, I like to let them read from their perspective and I interject like I did above, from time to time. They love learning this way and this method helps them understand what they are reading, without me lecturing them on what a passage means.

You teach? You have need of being taught the very basics. You don't know what a metaphor is. You don't know what a sign is. You don't understand basic English in reading passages. You think leaves form a tree keep people in heaven from dying. Yu think oneness is two persons of the godhead and one person is a man who becomes God. In short, you believe utter nonsense, and aren't able to teach anyone about anything, Sean. You're totally out of your league on this forum with just about anybody here.

Method? You cannot teach let alone use a method to do so.

Also, your contestant here needs to realize that which turns to the Lord is not Israel, but is the heart that is veiled. the previous verse stated the heart is veiled. So when we read about it turning to the Lord it's the heart. And when the heart of a single Jew turns his heart to Jesus, instead of the law, the veil is removed and the Jew sees the glory of the spiritual message from the apostles. This has nothing to do with a restoration of Israel. It has to do with a heart at any given time turinpning to the Lord.

J.A. Perez · #**280** 10-23-2015, 06:21 PM

2 Corinthians 3:1-18

1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:

3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:

5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

How's this?