Are Trinitarians Saved?

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

God alone is the judge of men.

There are those who know what is required and those who do not. I believe that God takes this into account. Now, if the mercy given is the pearly gates or a cooler hell, I don't know. But I know that God indeed is a just and righteous judge who does consider all things as part of our judgment.

It is written:

Luke 12:47-48 (KJV)
47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Matthew 10:42
And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold water only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.

Romans 9:15
For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Psalms 115:3
But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

But then there are those who have struck at the core of God's substance and nature. God is Holy and God is Spirit. God is the Holy Spirit. And to condemn any work of the Spirit as being demonism or a demonic delusion is drawing a line and declaring one's self an enemy of God. There is no hope of forgiveness or mercy for such a one regarding this sin:

Matthew 12:30-32 King James Version
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

But God is sovereign. That's what you've been telling those of us who believe the Scriptures which tell us what we must do to be saved. You've said those scriptures aren't absolute, because God is sovereign and He can change Heaven's admittance policy for any reason.

If strait isn't the gate and narrow isn't the way, why now suddenly claim the scriptures are absolute and God has lost His sovereignty with MacArthur?

For the dead who have not obeyed the Bible and experienced the New Birth - it's okay. Scripture isn't absolute, God is sovereign and can change at any time for whatever reason He so chooses.

For MacArthur, the scripture is absolute and God is not sovereign and cannot change His Word.

My neck hurts from the whiplash with you.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Now, if the mercy given is the pearly gates or a cooler hell, I don't know.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

But God is sovereign. That's what you've been telling those of us who believe the Scriptures which tell us what we must do to be saved. You've said those scriptures aren't absolute, because God is sovereign and He can change Heaven's admittance policy for any reason.

If strait isn't the gate and narrow isn't the way, why now suddenly claim the scriptures are absolute and God has lost His sovereignty with MacArthur?

For the dead who have not obeyed the Bible and experienced the New Birth - it's okay. Scripture isn't absolute, God is sovereign and can change at any time for whatever reason He so chooses.

For MacArthur, the scripture is absolute and God is not sovereign and cannot change His Word.

My neck hurts from the whiplash with you.

Here's how I look at it...

Might God have mercy on someone water baptized incorrectly?
If one is repentant and is justified by faith, can God have mercy upon them if they have no opportunity, yet they had desire, to obey the fullness of the Gospel?
Can such mercy be expected in all cases?

Let God judge these difficult cases sovereignly. And please understand, "mercy" can include a number of possibilities from admittance to Heaven to less torment in Hell. We simply leave it in the hands of a sovereign God.

But making one's self an enemy of God is beyond mere ignorance, it is a determination.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Chris aren’t you the guy who wants to see vehement condemnation on unbiblical teachings? Well, my man then that means some will bust the grave wide.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's how I look at it...

Might God have mercy on someone water baptized incorrectly?
If one is repentant and is justified by faith, can God have mercy upon them if they have no opportunity, yet they had desire, to obey the fullness of the Gospel?
Can such mercy be expected in all cases?

Let God judge these difficult cases sovereignly. And please understand, "mercy" can include a number of possibilities from admittance to Heaven to less torment in Hell. We simply leave it in the hands of a sovereign God.

But making one's self an enemy of God is beyond mere ignorance, it is a determination.

You first brought up the "sovereign" argument in the thread about Billy Graham's passing. You argued that it is possible that Billy may be admitted into Heaven, because God is sovereign.

Billy wasn't ignorant. He knew the scripture and preached another Gospel. But you continued to claim that God is sovereign and scriptures are not absolute, that God may change His Word.

FTR, I am not a fan of MacArthur. I believe he's as lost as Graham was. But for MacArthur, you now claim that scripture is absolute and God isn't as sovereign as you initially claimed.

It appears the only one's consistent on the sovereignty of God are the one's who believe the scriptures are absolute. The one's who have always said that strait is the gate and narrow the way, with no wavering or pandering.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by n david

You first brought up the "sovereign" argument in the thread about Billy Graham's passing. You argued that it is possible that Billy may be admitted into Heaven, because God is sovereign.

Billy wasn't ignorant. He knew the scripture and preached another Gospel. But you continued to claim that God is sovereign and scriptures are not absolute, that God may change His Word.

FTR, I am not a fan of MacArthur. I believe he's as lost as Graham was. But for MacArthur, you now claim that scripture is absolute and God isn't as sovereign as you initially claimed.

It appears the only one's consistent on the sovereignty of God are the one's who believe the scriptures are absolute. The one's who have always said that strait is the gate and narrow the way, with no wavering or pandering.

I don't see any assurance of salvation outside of Acts 2:38. I leave the thought of mercy open because I'm only making room that my understanding might be off, not because I personally think others outside of Acts 2:38 will indeed make it with any certainty. I mean, what if the One Steppers are right? Lol

We examined Graham's theology. Many who are more knowledgeable of what he taught informed me of a lot. I don't follow these guys (mainstream Evangelical leaders), so I try not to judge too harshly. But after review of what was said about Graham, I'm not convinced he made it.

But, I don't remember Graham ever saying that those who speak in tongues are under demonic delusion. I do know he didn't think it was necessary. However, MacArthur has called manifestations of the Spirit demonic. That causes me pause. MacArthur and Graham might both be in error. But only one, that I know of, has argued that the manifestations of the Spirit are demonic in origin. That causes me to think of MacArthur differently than others.

Here's an interesting question, is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit a sin one commits in a given moment, sealing their fate, or is it a disposition, that if continued in, leaves no room for mercy?

How do you see it?

[TGBTG]

Originally Posted by n david

You first brought up the "sovereign" argument in the thread about Billy Graham's passing. You argued that it is possible that Billy may be admitted into Heaven, because God is sovereign.

Billy wasn't ignorant. He knew the scripture and preached another Gospel. But you continued to claim that God is sovereign and scriptures are not absolute, that God may change His Word.

FTR, I am not a fan of MacArthur. I believe he's as lost as Graham was. But for MacArthur, you now claim that scripture is absolute and God isn't as sovereign as you initially claimed.

It appears the only one's consistent on the sovereignty of God are the one's who believe the scriptures are absolute. The one's who have always said that strait is the gate and narrow the way, with no wavering or pandering.

The emboldened statement is FALSE. His UNDERSTANDING of the scripture WAS different from yours, fine. However, that is NOT the same as saying "he knew the scripture and preached another gospel."

The whole cause for the arguments/discussion in the christian world is people's understanding of scripture. Just look at AFF!! People argue all the time NOT because "...they know and decide to preach another gospel" but rather due to different understandings of the SAME scripture.

Your understanding of Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of your belief. I guarantee you if you ask most evangelicals, they will tell you they have Repented, been baptized in Jesus' name and received the Holy Spirit. Now, the specifics of that is where disagreements come in. But to say the guy knew the scripture and decided to preach another gospel is just blatantly false.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

The emboldened statement is FALSE. His UNDERSTANDING of the scripture WAS different from yours, fine. However, that is NOT the same as saying "he knew the scripture and preached another gospel."

The whole cause for the arguments/discussion in the christian world is people's understanding of scripture. Just look at AFF!! People argue all the time NOT because "...they know and decide to preach another gospel" but rather due to different understandings of the SAME scripture.

Your understanding of Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of your belief. I guarantee you if you ask most evangelicals, they will tell you they have Repented, been baptized in Jesus' name and received the Holy Spirit. Now, the specifics of that is where disagreements come in. But to say the guy knew the scripture and decided to preach another gospel is just blatantly false.

Do you know that Billy Graham knew and met Apostolic Pentecostals?

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Do you know that Billy Graham knew and met Apostolic Pentecostals?

That does not prove a thing. My first exposure to Oneness Pentecostals was so bad that it cannot be said that I "heard the truth and rejected it". Sometimes we can't hear what people are saying because of their presentation. Sadly, most 5 minute attempts by Oneness people to convince their AG pastor neighbor that he is on his way to Hell do more to turn people off from this truth than to create a desire in them for more information. I was brought in because the man who shared with me accepted me as a true brother and even had me in his pulpit!

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

The emboldened statement is FALSE. His UNDERSTANDING of the scripture WAS different from yours, fine. However, that is NOT the same as saying "he knew the scripture and preached another gospel."

The whole cause for the arguments/discussion in the christian world is people's understanding of scripture. Just look at AFF!! People argue all the time NOT because "...they know and decide to preach another gospel" but rather due to different understandings of the SAME scripture.

Your understanding of Acts 2:38 is the cornerstone of your belief. I guarantee you if you ask most evangelicals, they will tell you they have Repented, been baptized in Jesus' name and received the Holy Spirit. Now, the specifics of that is where disagreements come in. But to say the guy knew the scripture and decided to preach another gospel is just blatantly false.

Somebody who gets it!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^