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  #281  
Old 05-21-2007, 12:41 PM
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we call this spin.


GWB was a very successful governor in a state that has not been real kind to its sitting governors. so, spin it all you want. this is true.

clinton had no more experiance.

RR had no more experience

carter had no more experience.
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  #282  
Old 05-21-2007, 12:52 PM
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And Chan, it is wishfull thinking for those of you that hate GWB to suggest he was a republican puppet.

I LIVE in Texas, and did the entire time GWB was Governor of this state. he was an active Governor and you are quoting popular liberal myth in suggesting that the Gov. is powerless.
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  #283  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
wrong. unemployment is nearly a point below the average of the 1990s.
Are you sure about that?
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currently unemployment is around 4.3% the 1990s ranged around 5.5 %
Did it range around or was that the average? You can't have it both ways. Actually, it's at 4.7 percent today. It's higher today than it was at the low point of the 1990s (around 1999). SOURCE

Quote:
while on the surface that might now seem like a lot but it is a statistaclly large number. indicating millions of jobs.
Any reduction in unemployment is usually a good thing. Like all unemployment figures touted by politicians, it doesn't take into account all the people on public assistance ("Welfare," Social Security Disability, other government disability) or all the people who've simply stopped collecting unemployment payments and stopped looking for work.

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Home ownership (even with recient issues with high risk loans) is at an all time high. Home ownership in minority areas is at an even greater all time high.
And with home ownership comes increased debt load, which in the long term is not good for the economy.

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inflation is higher in a post ressession period than it was in an unusually low period of the 1990's. the 1990's was very much an anomoly. this was during a period when we were in the beginnings of a major shift in business modeling and an entirely new employment paradym was in the beginnings states.
Was it an anomaly or was it the fruit of Ronald Reagan's tax cuts in the 1980s?

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that bubble busted if you remember. dont blame GWB for what happend before he took the oath of office.
Of course the stock market bubble burst: it was making a very necessary correction of an abnormally inflated market. It's going to burst again. This kind of thing seemingly happens in cycles and presidents have nothing to do with it.

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as for American Liberties.... well, name one American liberty that has eroded?
The federal government having the right to obtain information about you (such as phone records and what books you check out at the public library, church records, and other records that third parties have on you) without a search warrant and with the third parties being prohibited from telling you about it; roving wiretaps; seizing business records without having evidence that an individual citizen has links to terrorism; access to credit reports, financial records, etc. without a warrant just by issuing a "National Security Letter"; the nearly complete lack of judicial oversight (since the federal government under the Patriot Act doesn't have to get a warrant or have probable cause, the latter would have been necessary for the warrant). Other liberties eroded include increased federal government secrecy, particularly around the implementation of "emergency" laws such as the Patriot Act; indefinite detention of U. S. citizens without access to an attorney or without criminal charges being filed; shall I go on?
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  #284  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Ferd View Post
And Chan, it is wishfull thinking for those of you that hate GWB to suggest he was a republican puppet.

I LIVE in Texas, and did the entire time GWB was Governor of this state. he was an active Governor and you are quoting popular liberal myth in suggesting that the Gov. is powerless.
Then you don't know much about your own state government. Here's what one educational source has to say...

"When creating the Texas Constitution of 1876, the authors dispersed much of the power traditionally given to the office of the governor to independently elected officials, creating what some refer to as a "plural executive." Nonetheless, the governor remains one of the most influential figures in the Texan political process."

By the way, "influential" doesn't mean having political authority.

"While the Governor is responsible for recommending a budget for the next two years, the majority of budget authority lies in the ten-member Legislative Budget Board, which is made up of nine members of the state Legislature and chaired by the Lieutenant Governor."

SOURCE

Here's a power point presentation on the Texas Governor: http://faculty.tcu.edu/rmillsap/Stat...s/Governor.ppt

"Partly because of many elected officials, the governor's powers are quite limited in comparison to other state governors or the U.S. President." SOURCE
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  #285  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:31 PM
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unemployment rates from the US labor dept.

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

average of the bush years are lower than the 1990's.

the bubble i am talking about is not just the stock market (although even that was affected. ) I am talking about the internet business bubble that was in many ways a false business modle that ran amuck and lead to an over inflated stock market and thus a signicant collapse.

this anomoly Clinton gets credit for the upswing and gets the genious tag but no one gives him any blame for the fall out. GWB navigated these waters very successfully. GWB should get double credit
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  #286  
Old 05-21-2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan View Post
Then you don't know much about your own state government. Here's what one educational source has to say...

"When creating the Texas Constitution of 1876, the authors dispersed much of the power traditionally given to the office of the governor to independently elected officials, creating what some refer to as a "plural executive." Nonetheless, the governor remains one of the most influential figures in the Texan political process."

By the way, "influential" doesn't mean having political authority.

"While the Governor is responsible for recommending a budget for the next two years, the majority of budget authority lies in the ten-member Legislative Budget Board, which is made up of nine members of the state Legislature and chaired by the Lieutenant Governor."

SOURCE

Here's a power point presentation on the Texas Governor: http://faculty.tcu.edu/rmillsap/Stat...s/Governor.ppt

"Partly because of many elected officials, the governor's powers are quite limited in comparison to other state governors or the U.S. President." SOURCE

Chan, you get to read "educational" sources on the subject. I get to live here. my view is much better than yours.

but it demonstraits a great point. Considering the fact, that in Texas, the Governor is saddled with a pretty large commettee to get anything done, it shows the power and popularity and skill of a governor to be as successful as GWB was.

He drove the debate. He outlined to the state what he sought to achieve and he was extremely successful. so much so, that even minority voters who are traditionally 80 to 90% democrat voted for him on re-election.
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  #287  
Old 05-21-2007, 03:23 PM
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Ever since Teddy Roosevelt, the United States has been trying to butt its nose in the affairs of other nations, contrary to the foreign policy advice of many of the founding fathers and contrary to what was foreign policy from the founding of the republic through almost all of the 19th century. We are reaping what we have sown.
Good point Chan! I agree.
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  #288  
Old 05-21-2007, 03:31 PM
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That's part of the problem: we keep butting our nose into everyone else's business. It's not our job to police the world or to serve as the world's food distribution warehouse! Trade with other nations, be friendly with other nations but keep America's nose out of the internal affairs of those nations.
The problem I have is that in some areas of the world like Darfur and Zimbabwe the US is no where to be seen. I can't understand (except for the oil factor) why the US would feel they needed to remove Hussein, but have no problem with what Mugabe is doing to the people of Zimbabwe. I have been there and seen first hand the devastation Mugabe's dictatorship is wreaking on that nation. It is worse now than when I was there a few years ago. I was in a meeting with the head of our ACOP churches in that nation on Thursday. It is unbelievable what Mugabe is doing and no one is doing anything to stop him.
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  #289  
Old 05-21-2007, 03:43 PM
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I guess I must remind some that the US in the most generous nation in the world when it comes to giving to tragedies worldwide, and to help underdeveloped countries. Beleive it or not, as the worlds superpower, the US is called on to be the police for conflicts as they occur.

I would love it if the US would just decide to focus all of their efforts on themself (like Canada!), but folks around the globe would eventually be screamming for our help. I guess we could tell them that we have our own domestic problems to worry about (like Germany and France) and they are on their own!

All we need for this to happen is to get a yellow bellied Democrat in office, and before long we'll be the next France! Someone could get rich making white flags for our military!
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  #290  
Old 05-21-2007, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Pianoman View Post
I guess I must remind some that the US in the most generous nation in the world when it comes to giving to tragedies worldwide, and to help underdeveloped countries. Beleive it or not, as the worlds superpower, the US is called on to be the police for conflicts as they occur.

I would love it if the US would just decide to focus all of their efforts on themself (like Canada!), but folks around the globe would eventually be screamming for our help. I guess we could tell them that we have our own domestic problems to worry about (like Germany and France) and they are on their own!

All we need for this to happen is to get a yellow bellied Democrat in office, and before long we'll be the next France! Someone could get rich making white flags for our military!

Coward. that is what France and most of the democrat party are.
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