Those who never heard about Jesus?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jito463

And their "reality" is based on a lie. Congratulations on making his point for him.

Exactly.

[shazeep]

well the point was that you will not convince them of that, there was no arguing that they are deceived in some way.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

well the point was that you will not convince them of that, there was no arguing that they are deceived in some way.

That's a good and valid point. I agree. It did not appear like that in the posts I read, though. Glad you pointed that out.

[Aquila]

I believe the doctrine of Prevenient Grace answers the question of the original post.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe the doctrine of Prevenient Grace answers the question of the original post.

We cannot say for sure, though. The bible does not flatly state that, so we cannot put our solid concrete trust in it. But love hopeth all things!

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I believe the doctrine of Prevenient Grace answers the question of the original post.

The doctrine of prevenient grace is that all have been given a gracious ability from God to believe the gospel when it is presented to them.

Therefore, prevenient grace does not, in fact, answer the original question.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

The doctrine of prevenient grace is that all have been given a gracious ability from God to believe the gospel when it is presented to them.

Therefore, prevenient grace does not, in fact, answer the original question.

Your view on Prevenient Grace is limited. Prevenient Grace not only grants all the gracious ability to believe the Gospel, but it also witnesses to the "inner man" of every soul. Those souls who respond to this "inner calling" find themselves often questioning their religion, their lifestyle, or their philosophies. It is essentially the "inner calling" of the Spirit to the soul of man. Those who resist this Prevenient Grace are left to their own devices. However, those who respond to this "inner calling" begin to enter a place wherein they are consciously or even unconsciously "seeking" greater truth are being prepared for the "outer calling" which is the preached Word. These are sent missionaries and witnesses. When they hear the "outer calling" they are confronted with the fullness of the Gospel and are presented with the option to ultimately choose Christ or deny Him.

In this way, the grace of God has appeared unto all men.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

1 John 4:19
We love him, because he first loved us.

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Titus 2:11
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

[Esaias]

Provide a quote from Arminius and I'll buy your definition of Prevenient Grace.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Provide a quote from Arminius and I'll buy your definition of Prevenient Grace.

I don't know about providing a quote from Arminius, but I do know that the concept was born out quite well in Barry L. Callen's book, God As Loving Grace.

https://www.amazon.com/GOD-AS-LOVING...ving+and+Grace

[Aquila]

Can a man be saved if the Father doesn't first draw him? Of course not.

Would the Father be selective in drawing men? Of course not, God is no respecter of persons.