The 1 Step Salvation plan

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by ApostolicTexas

This movement is gaining ground among the Apostolic/Pentecostal circles as the 21st century "New Issue".They basically teach that faith alone saves just like any other denomination.Salavtion comes before water baptism they say as the example for Corneilus is given as their their prime example.They believe in water baptism in Jesus name..but it does not remit sin as sin was remitted at repentance..some even say no need at at all [to be baptized]and it doesnt matter what formula is used..This doctrine is known as the 1 step and it is actually nothing new.. These guys are just good o baptist people baptized in Jesus name!

Some lurk here on this board if you have not yet discovered them!

Evidently, Tex, you don't come around AFF very often. If you did, you would know this subject has been discussed, studied, examined, debated and argued over since... well, for a long time. And, as you most surely should know, there are different views now, just as there has always been different views. A great organization (of which I am not a member) was formed in 1945 that brought together two groups- one of which were, as you characterize, "One Steppers", the other "Three-steppers". An amazing, miraculous feat, I must say, which, in todays polarized atmosphere among Apostolic people, would be virtually impossible. But, if I understand Apostolic history, that feat of unity in 1945 could only be accomplished through the inspiration of one man, who sat down in a room and was given the words that lead to the formation of the United Pentecostal Church. Something about standing for the differing views but not to the disunity of the Body. When these words were read to the committee they all wept, embraced and praised God that He, through the inspiring words of that document, paved the way for the formation of what we call now "The UPCI".

Course, as I understand, those words are hard to find today. They have all but disappeared from the annals of the UPC. Also, disappearing, it seems, is the spirit in which those words were written. Now, "1 stepper" brethren, of which, though I despise this disivive and carnal "labeling", I am happy to align myself with, are called Baptist. We have been called compromisers. Its been said we deny the need for, or the importance of, water baptism. In short, a huge blanket has been thrown over all who don't align or conform themselves to "accepted Apostolic views". The spirit that brought people together is gone. Division and separatism is all that is left. 1992, recent events. Can we not see that the docment of 1945 was the "tie that binds"? I stand corrected. It wasn't the document. It wasn't the words. It was the spirit. It was the attitude. The "first love" is being forsaken.

Another division is in the offing, I predict. That will be when one-steppers and three-steppers go their separate ways. There will be those who will rejoice and say "Good riddance". Then there will be those who will weep as Jesyus wept over Jerusalem. I will weep when I see another wedge of divsion being driven between brethren who have prayed and preached together. Just as our Apostolic forefathers wept when they were dismissed from the Assemblies of God, and brethren who loved one another were forced to break fellowship, more fellowship is being broken now... and more will come later.

The blanket you have thrown over your "one-stepper" brethren doesn't fit, Brother. We do not deny the need for water baptism, and, while there are some who may say this, your characterization is unfair. Your referring to us as Baptist is as accurate as those who accuse "three-steppers" of being "legalist" and Pharisees. The spirit from which those labels come is not pleasing to the Lord. We are brethren, who share the common expereince of being filled with the same Spirit, whether we recieved that experience before baptism or after.

I pray that we Apostolic believers, whether we be ALJC, UPC, or, now WPF or whatever, can come back to the desire for unity.I have written much on this forum about UNITY, but it goes into oblivion with berely a comment, because UNITY is though of as an impossible dream. An unachievable goal. I sometime wonder if wwe even desire to UNITE as Christ prayed in the garden. But, I , and others, pray. I pray that we can build our foundations, not on a pet doctrine or belief, but on the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray our fellowship with one another can be based, not on a manual or card, but on that Self-Same Spirit, that fills us to overflowing. Finally, I pray that our love for one another, shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, will transcend doctrinal and organizational barriers just as it has transcended (hopefully) racial prejudice. I pray that we will one day share in the spirit of Abraham who spoke the words below.....

(A footnote: Many of us do not lurk, brother. There is no need to dicover us, nor do we need to be "outted". We stand emphatically for what we believe and, when necessary, we (at least some of us)respectfully disagree with others without resorting to name calling and unfair and misleading characterizations. And, now I can speak only for myself, we extend a right hand of fellowship, with ALL of our Apostolic brethren and sisters, without favor and partialilty. We believe absolutely and resolutely in what the NT teaches: We are one in Christ.)

[Felicity]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Evidently, Tex, you don't come around AFF very often. If you did, you would know this subject has been discussed, studied, examined, debated and argued over since... well, for a long time. And, as you most surely should know, there are different views now, just as there has always been different views. A great organization (of which I am not a member) was formed in 1945 that brought together two groups- one of which were, as you characterize, "One Steppers", the Other "Three-steppers". An amazing, miraculous feat, I must say, which, in todays polarized atmosphere among Apostolic people, would be virtually impossible. But, if I understand Apostolic history, that feat of unity in 1945 could only be accomplished through the inspiration of one man, who sat down in a room and was given the words" that lead to the formation of the United Pentecostal Church. Something about standing for the differing views but not to the disunity of the Body.When these words were read to the committee they all wept, envraced and praised God that He, through the inspiring words of that document, paved the way for the formation of what we call now "The UPCI".

Course, as I understand, those words are hard to find today. They have all but disappeared from the annals of the UPC. Also, disappearing, it seems, is the spirit in which those words were written. Now, "1 stepper" brethren, of which, though I despise this disivive and carnal "labeling", I am happy to align myself with, are called Baptist. We have been called compromisers. Its been said we deny the need for, or the importance of, water baptism. In short, a huge blanket has been thrownover all who don't align or conform themselves to "accepted Apostolic views". The spirit that brought people together is gone. Division and separatism is all that is left. 1992, recent events. Can we not see that the docment of 1945 was the "tie that binds"? I stand corrected. It wasn't the document. It wasn't the words. It was the spirit. It was the attitude. The "first love" is being forsaken.

Another division is in the offing, I predict. That will be when one-steppers and three-steppers go their separate ways. There willbe those who will rejoice and say "Good riddance". Then there will be those who will weep. I will weep when I see another wedge of divsion being driven between brethren who have prayed and preached together. Just as our Apostolic forefathers wept when they were dismissed from the Assemblies of God, and brethren who loved one another were forced to break fellowship, more fellowship is being broken now... and more will come later.

The blanket you have thrown over your "one-stepper" brethren doesn't fit, Brother. We do not deny the need for water baptism, and, while there are some who may say this, your characterization is unfair. Your referring to us as Baptist is as accurate as those who accuse "three-steppers" of being "legalist" and Pharisees. The spirit from which those labels come is not pleasing to the Lord. We are brethren, who share the common expereince of being filled with the same Spirit, whether we recieved that experience before baptism or after.

I pray that we Apostolic believers, whether we be ALJC, UPC, or, now WPF, can come back to the desire for unity. I pray that we can build our foundations, not on a pet doctrine or belief, but on the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray our fellowship with one another can be based, not on a manual or card, but on that Self-Same Spirit, that fills us to overflowing. Finally, I pray that our love for one another, shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, will transcend doctrinal and organizational barriers just as it has transcended (hopefully) racial prejudice. I pray that we will one day share in the spirit of Abraham who spoke the words below.....

(A footnote: Many of us do not lurk, brother. There is no need to dicover us, nor do we need to be "outted". We stand emphatically for what we believe and, when necessary, we respectfully disagree with others. And, now I can speak only for myself, we extend a right hand of fellowship, with ALL of our Apostolic brethren and sisters, without favor and partialilty. We are one in Christ.)

Good post! Great spirit!

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Evidently, Tex, you don't come around AFF very often. If you did, you would know this subject has been discussed, studied, examined, debated and argued over since... well, for a long time. And, as you most surely should know, there are different views now, just as there has always been different views. A great organization (of which I am not a member) was formed in 1945 that brought together two groups- one of which were, as you characterize, "One Steppers", the other "Three-steppers". An amazing, miraculous feat, I must say, which, in todays polarized atmosphere among Apostolic people, would be virtually impossible. But, if I understand Apostolic history, that feat of unity in 1945 could only be accomplished through the inspiration of one man, who sat down in a room and was given the words that lead to the formation of the United Pentecostal Church. Something about standing for the differing views but not to the disunity of the Body. When these words were read to the committee they all wept, embraced and praised God that He, through the inspiring words of that document, paved the way for the formation of what we call now "The UPCI".

Course, as I understand, those words are hard to find today. They have all but disappeared from the annals of the UPC. Also, disappearing, it seems, is the spirit in which those words were written. Now, "1 stepper" brethren, of which, though I despise this disivive and carnal "labeling", I am happy to align myself with, are called Baptist. We have been called compromisers. Its been said we deny the need for, or the importance of, water baptism. In short, a huge blanket has been thrown over all who don't align or conform themselves to "accepted Apostolic views". The spirit that brought people together is gone. Division and separatism is all that is left. 1992, recent events. Can we not see that the docment of 1945 was the "tie that binds"? I stand corrected. It wasn't the document. It wasn't the words. It was the spirit. It was the attitude. The "first love" is being forsaken.

Another division is in the offing, I predict. That will be when one-steppers and three-steppers go their separate ways. There will be those who will rejoice and say "Good riddance". Then there will be those who will weep as Jesyus wept over Jerusalem. I will weep when I see another wedge of divsion being driven between brethren who have prayed and preached together. Just as our Apostolic forefathers wept when they were dismissed from the Assemblies of God, and brethren who loved one another were forced to break fellowship, more fellowship is being broken now... and more will come later.

The blanket you have thrown over your "one-stepper" brethren doesn't fit, Brother. We do not deny the need for water baptism, and, while there are some who may say this, your characterization is unfair. Your referring to us as Baptist is as accurate as those who accuse "three-steppers" of being "legalist" and Pharisees. The spirit from which those labels come is not pleasing to the Lord. We are brethren, who share the common expereince of being filled with the same Spirit, whether we recieved that experience before baptism or after.

I pray that we Apostolic believers, whether we be ALJC, UPC, or, now WPF or whatever, can come back to the desire for unity.I have written much on this forum about UNITY, but it goes into oblivion with berely a comment, because UNITY is though of as an impossible dream. An unachievable goal. I sometime wonder if wwe even desire to UNITE as Christ prayed in the garden. But, I , and others, pray. I pray that we can build our foundations, not on a pet doctrine or belief, but on the Lord Jesus Christ. I pray our fellowship with one another can be based, not on a manual or card, but on that Self-Same Spirit, that fills us to overflowing. Finally, I pray that our love for one another, shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost, will transcend doctrinal and organizational barriers just as it has transcended (hopefully) racial prejudice. I pray that we will one day share in the spirit of Abraham who spoke the words below.....

(A footnote: Many of us do not lurk, brother. There is no need to dicover us, nor do we need to be "outted". We stand emphatically for what we believe and, when necessary, we (at least some of us)respectfully disagree with others without resorting to name calling and unfair and misleading characterizations. And, now I can speak only for myself, we extend a right hand of fellowship, with ALL of our Apostolic brethren and sisters, without favor and partialilty. We believe absolutely and resolutely in what the NT teaches: We are one in Christ.)

Why do you label yourself if You are indeed a Baptist?..I thought this was a Apostolic Forum as in general...

Your right..I do not come around here often..thousands of forums out there I do not hang out with the same everyday...some get busy and some get boring..this one is just like the Texas weather before You go out and place me in a bin labled "______" you have to know and understand my background and my upbringing..I speak from a sincere heart though words may come out differently.I will admit..This is my first exsposure to such and I perhaps stand on that line they did back in 1945..I want the truth..I believe I have always been in it but here comes this and you wonder...

[brotherjason]

Ok, this is all new to me. The onesteppers or faith alone or what ever label you want to put there. I have an honest sincere no flaying or roasting, just a question. Do you folks still baptize in the name of Jesus Christ and get the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38 and just believe that maybe all those who disagree with you don't go to hell?

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by brotherjason

Ok, this is all new to me. The onesteppers or faith alone or what ever label you want to put there. I have an honest sincere no flaying or roasting, just a question. Do you folks still baptize in the name of Jesus Christ and get the Holy Ghost according to Acts 2:38 and just believe that maybe all those who disagree with you don't go to hell?

Bro Jason- While I can't answer for everyone I can say this: The One Step Plan is a misnomer. It seems to imply that all one needs to do is believe in order for one to be saved. Some may believe that, but, the majority believe otherwise.
To put it simply, most one steppers (I hate the falacy of the name) believe one is "saved" at repentance. Their sins are forgiven and washed away at repentance. But they, nor I, believe it ends there. Again, not speaking for everyone, but we believe the FIRST STEP of the new life in Christ is to obey the Lord in the waters of baptism, by being baptized in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Further, we believe the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a free gift to those who have repented of their sins. Thats the reason, we believe it is a fact that people recieve the Holy Ghost even before they are baptized. I won't cite Acts 10 here, because it has been suggested that the experience of Cornelius household is our only foundation. It isn't. I will cite Acts 2. On the very day that Peter preached Acts 2:38, the BELIEVERS were filled with the Holy Ghost BEFORE they were baptized in water. They were, in fact, filled with the Holy Ghost BEFORE Peter preached this that we call the Plan of Salvation. By this simple fact it would appear that sins are forgiven at repentance.

It has been my observation that, with the 3 stepper view, salvation becomes an almost unattainable goal. It is taught that we are not saved at repentance. We are not saved, in fact, at water baptism. And, we are not yet saved until the Holy Ghost is given. In fact. other stipulations are added.One cannot be saved until they have a complete understanding of the Godhead. Others say a complete and total adherrance to "standards" is required fpr salvation. I admit, this is a generalization, but, no more so than those generalizationas as put forth at the beginning of this thread.

One steppers use several biblical anologies to state their position. One if the flood. Noah and his family were safe (saved) when the entered the ark. Then they were carried away by the water (baptism). Next, they found new ground, (the newness of life, the Holy Ghost). Most one steppers I know see this as a clear type of the plan of Salvation. We are saved at repentance. We respond to that salvation by submitting to water baptism. Then we recieve the Holy Ghost, though, perhaps not necessarily in that exact order.

The next biblical type is the death, burial resurrection of Jesus Christ. His death, when His Blood was spilled, purchased our salavtion. Our sins were remitted when His Blood was spilled. Through His forgiveness, our sinful nature died there at the foot of the Cross. Then, our sinful life was buried in water baptism just as the Body of Jesus Who bore our sins was buried in the tomb. We were then resurrected to a new life through that same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead.

Yes, Brother, we do believe in Acts 2:38. We do not deny the need for, even the necessity of, water baptism. It is a necessary step- a step of obedience to God's Word.

[ChristopherHall]

I believe that salvation "begins" at repentance. Baptism seals the deal. For example a marriage begins at the engagement. Once two people have betrothed one another they have forsaken all others and the unconditional love and acceptance is there. Perhaps they have even forgiven arguments that took place while dating. BUT....the marriage isn't sealed until the wedding ceremony.

A sinner repents and they begin their relationship with the Lord. God gives them love and acceptance and calls them his own. He then may fill them with the Holy Ghost though they have yet to be water baptized. Then when they are water baptized in the name of Jesus the deal is sealed. Their sins are forgiven and they are now a part of the New Covenant.

Some people have faith and repent of sin, and they begin a relationship with the Lord. God may even fill them with the Holy Ghost because he loves them. However, until they are water baptized they are only having a romance with the Lord...they've yet to become part of the bride.

It takes all three steps.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Joelel

Repentance remits sin and water baptism washes sins away.The word speaks of baptism of repentance,and Holy Ghost and water.A meaning of baptism is to clean or purefiy.Each baptism cleans a person to an extent.

Acts.22
[16] And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Mark.1
[4] John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luke.3
[3] And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts.2
[38] Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matt.3
[11] I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

The bottom line is,everything God set in order is needed.

I got the Holy Ghost BEFORE I was water baptized…how did I receive the HOLY GHOST before I was cleansed or purified????

They had to schedule my water baptism a few days out due to having no baptismal available. Do you mean to tell me that even though I had repented of sin and God filled me with the Holy Ghost I would have gone to Hell if I died in a car accident on the way to the church service where I was baptized????!!!!!!

Please answer the question! If I wasn’t cleansed, washed, or my sins were not forgiven until my baptism…HOW DID I RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST AFTER REPENTANCE ALONE?

[Joelel]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I got the Holy Ghost BEFORE I was water baptized…how did I receive the HOLY GHOST before I was cleansed or purified????

They had to schedule my water baptism a few days out due to having no baptismal available. Do you mean to tell me that even though I had repented of sin and God filled me with the Holy Ghost I would have gone to Hell if I died in a car accident on the way to the church service where I was baptized????!!!!!!

Please answer the question! If I wasn’t cleansed, washed, or my sins were not forgiven until my baptism…HOW DID I RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST AFTER REPENTANCE ALONE?

I know you must continue in all truth to be saved.I believe if you couldn't get to the water to be baptized you would be saved but if you refuse to be baptized as soon as possable you may be lost.

1 Tim.004:016Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; (teachings,word,Truth) continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I got the Holy Ghost BEFORE I was water baptized…how did I receive the HOLY GHOST before I was cleansed or purified????

They had to schedule my water baptism a few days out due to having no baptismal available. Do you mean to tell me that even though I had repented of sin and God filled me with the Holy Ghost I would have gone to Hell if I died in a car accident on the way to the church service where I was baptized????!!!!!!

Please answer the question! If I wasn’t cleansed, washed, or my sins were not forgiven until my baptism…HOW DID I RECEIVE THE HOLY GHOST AFTER REPENTANCE ALONE?

In answer to your question. Yes. You would split hell wide open. At least, thats according to the view of some. I have read it on one of these forums that babies that die before they are baptized go to torment. (I don't know what happens to babies that die before birth or are aborted). Even the mentally ill are consigned to hell in some areas of thought. I can't imagine a God like that. I just thank God that He doesn't see through the eyes of those who believe such!

Your second question cannot be logically answered by those brethren and sisters who hold to the 3 stepper view. Its been asked before (I think by you on another thread). Your question leads to a paradox in 3 stepper theology. A loophole. However, when we read the Word ofGod for what It says, and not for what we have been taught it says, the loophole is solved. Thank God for His eternal truth!

[ApostolicTexas]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

In answer to your question. Yes. You would split hell wide open. At least, thats according to the view of some. I have read it on one of these forums that babies that die before they are baptized go to torment. (I don't know what happens to babies that die before birth or are aborted). Even the mentally ill are consigned to hell in some areas of thought. I can't imagine a God like that. I just thank God that He doesn't see through the eyes of those who believe such!

Your second question cannot be logically answered by those brethren and sisters who hold to the 3 stepper view. Its been asked before (I think by you on another thread). Your question leads to a paradox in 3 stepper theology. A loophole. However, when we read the Word ofGod for what It says, and not for what we have been taught it says, the loophole is solved. Thank God for His eternal truth!

OneAccord...are you a 1 stepper?