Why Apostolic women wear veils Pt 1

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by jaxfam6

I think most see it as such now days. The thing is I do not know many in the organization that do not cut their hair. (women that is)
If they could get the GB to get rid of this tradition I think very few would show up the next service with their veil on.

Another quote from wikipedia


Reasons for the headcovering

Those who practice headcovering call attention to St. Paul's appeal to universal principles in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, arguing that since the passage mentions “every man” and “every woman,” as well as the universal order of creation, this passage must apply to all Christians in all ages and of all cultures. They hold that the Bible is not merely referring to hair, long hair, or submission, but rather a literal cloth headcovering. They support this understanding from the original Greek, which uses two different words: one meaning covering, referring to the woman's head, i.e., her husband, and the other meaning veiling, referring to a literal cloth covering. Corinthians 11:6 is also cited to refute the notion that the headcovering intended by Paul is merely long hair, ("For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to eb shorn or shaven, let her be covered.") because it would be akin to saying "If a woman has short hair, let her hair be cut short."

[edit] Objections to the headcovering

Some Christians interpret the passage as a cultural mandate that was only for the first-century Corinthian church. Therefore, they say, women no longer need to cover their heads. Other Christians believe that long hair is intended to be the headcovering.[9] Still others believe that a woman’s husband is her covering. Yet another view, propagated by feminist Katharine Bushnell, holds that 1 Corinthians 11 itself even teaches that women should not cover their heads at all.

[connielori]

'Apostolic' women DO NOT cover their heads. (Wearing little lace doileys on their heads IS NOT what I would consider a 'covering'.) If this is truly how you believe why isn't their head covered? For example,.... the islamic women COVER their heads.

....Also,... the new generation Apostolic women wear the little doileys AND cut their hair.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by connielori

'Apostolic' women DO NOT cover their heads. (Wearing little lace doileys on their heads IS NOT what I would consider a 'covering'.) If this is truly how you believe why isn't their head covered? For example,.... the islamic women COVER their heads.

....Also,... the new generation Apostolic women wear the little doileys AND cut their hair.

Well good for islamic women. A lot of them also cover their faces too. And a lot of them have family members that would kill us if they had a chance.

Just because one group covers with a whole bed sheet and someone else uses a see through piece of cloth does not mean that they are not covering. They are taught to be under the authority of her husband she needs to put something on her head when she does anything that could be thought of as a church function or religious ceremony. Some wear small coverings others wear large ones. Some wear them to match their hair, others to match their clothing, others just because they are told to put something up there. If you are an adhernt to 1 Corinthians really meaning a covering of some sort you could use your hand if all else failed. At least your head would have something on it. I do not remember seeing anything that said it had be a 4' x 4' cloth or any such nonsense.
And what difference does it make if they cut their hair it will not send them to hell.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

This covering of a woman has some significance beside tradition.

Num 5:18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:


Look it up on wikipedia

For many centuries, until around 1175, Anglo-Saxon and then Anglo-Norman women, with the exception of young unmarried girls, wore veils that entirely covered their hair, and often their necks up to their chins (see wimple). Only in the Tudor period (1485), when hoods became increasingly popular, did veils of this type become less common.

In Judaism, Christianity and Islam the concept of covering the head is or was associated with propriety. All traditional depictions of the Virgin Mary, the mother of Christ, show her veiled. Veiling was a common practice with church-going women until the 1960s, and a number of very traditional churches retain the custom. The wearing of various forms of the Muslim veil has provoked controversy in the West.

Traditionally, in Christianity, women were enjoined to cover their heads in church, just as it was (and still is) customary for men to remove their hat as a sign of respect. This practice is based on 1 Corinthians 11:4-16

In many traditional Eastern Orthodox Churches, and in some very conservative Protestant churches as well, the custom continues of women covering their heads in church (or even when praying privately at home).

In the Roman Catholic Church, it was customary in most places before the 1960s for women to wear a headcovering in the form of a scarf, cap, veil or hat when entering a church. The practice now continues where it is seen as a matter of etiquette, courtesy, tradition or fashionable elegance rather than strictly of religion. Traditionalist Catholics also maintain the practice.

History of the Christian headcovering

1 Corinthians 11:4-16 contains the only reference in the New Testament to a headcovering for women and to an absence of a headcovering for men. Various early Church Fathers, such as Hermas[1], Clement of Alexandria[2] and Tertullian[3] also mentioned women's headcoverings. Early Christian art shows women wearing headcoverings.[4]

Both at that time and through the ensuing centuries, women usually wore a headcovering in public, as they still do in some Middle Eastern countries. But during the 1900s, the practice of headcovering gradually disappeared from many churches, which dropped their requirement that women cover their heads during worship services.

[edit] In Protestant churches

Among the early Protestant reformers, Martin Luther's wife, Katherine, wore a headcovering and John Knox and John Calvin both called for women to wear headcoverings.[5],[6], [7] Commentators such as Matthew Henry, A. R. Fausset and A. T. Robertson also wrote that women should wear headcoverings.

Headcovering, at least during worship services, is still promoted or required in a few denominations. Among these are some Anabaptist denominations, including the Amish, some Mennonites, and the Apostolic Christian Church; some Pentecostal churches, including Church of Our Lord Jesus Christ of the Apostolic Faith; and the stricter Dutch Reformed churches. Though most other Protestant denominations have no official expectation that women cover, some individuals choose to practice headcovering according to their understanding of 1 Corinthians 11.

Ok, so what?

Tradition!....Tradition. die de die dy...die de die dy...tradition! Tradition!
(Can't get that song out of my head after reading this post).

The Num 5:18 scripture was so far out of context, you might as well have included the OT scritpure about piercing a dudes ear to the wall...or something like that.

I have observed precious precious ladies, very smart, intelligent and talented, carry those little doilies in their pockets to make sure they put them on while before they go into the church whether they be cleaning or singing, or whatever else.

To me this sparks of the Catholic....every one together now!!

Tradition!....Tradition. die de die die...die de die die...tradition! Tradition!

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Ok, so what?

Tradition!....Tradition. die de die dy...die de die dy...tradition! Tradition!
(Can't get that song out of my head after reading this post).

The Num 5:18 scripture was so far out of context, you might as well have included the OT scritpure about piercing a dudes ear to the wall...or something like that.

I have observed precious precious ladies, very smart, intelligent and talented, carry those little doilies in their pockets to make sure they put them on while before they go into the church whether they be cleaning or singing, or whatever else.

To me this sparks of the Catholic....every one together now!!

Tradition!....Tradition. die de die die...die de die die...tradition! Tradition!

Yes about that verse out of context. I left the computor for a while and was going to coment on that verse but left off when I came back.

I was just going to say that this custom has been going on even before the law of Moses. Though in the law it speaks of a wife that is to uncover her head when she enters into judgement for infidelity. This just shows that it was customary for married women to cover their heads as I believe it was given to the patriarchs in the oral law passed on from generation to generation. Before there was a written law the oral law was in effect but you almost could get it straight from the one who recieved it as they all lived almost to be a thousand years old.


Gen 24:65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

Even Rebekah veiled herself when she saw Isaac. Some have said that this was for the Corinthian church and their time period. As aluded to in the begining of 1 Cor. this was a universal law for Gods created order.

It has been said that this is the reason why Jacob could have been decieved to marry Leah for she would have entered his tent veiled to consumate the marriage. The father would lead his daughter to the tent and would get the bed sheets in the morning to verify that his daughter was a virgin.

Even before the law of Moses there was a law concerning the custom of women that said they were unclean for that time period. God had established laws with his people though only certain ones were contained in the written law. The people already knew that they were to observe them. Here is Laban going after Jacob when certain images were missing.

Gen 31:35 And she said to her father, Let it not displease my lord that I cannot rise up before thee; for the custom of women is upon me. And he searched, but found not the images.

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Pastor DTSalaz

Yes about that verse out of context. I left the computor for a while and was going to coment on that verse but left off when I came back.

I was just going to say that this custom has been going on even before the law of Moses. Though in the law it speaks of a wife that is to uncover her head when she enters into judgement for infidelity. This just shows that it was customary for married women to cover their heads as I believe it was given to the patriarchs in the oral law passed on from generation to generation. Before there was a written law the oral law was in effect but you almost could get it straight from the one who recieved it as they all lived almost to be a thousand years old.


Gen 24:65 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself.

Even Rebekah veiled herself when she saw Isaac. Some have said that this was for the Corinthian church and their time period. As aluded to in the begining of 1 Cor. this was a universal law for Gods created order.

It has been said that this is the reason why Jacob could have been decieved to marry Leah for she would have entered his tent veiled to consumate the marriage. The father would lead his daughter to the tent and would get the bed sheets in the morning to verify that his daughter was a virgin.

Even before the law of Moses there was a law concerning the custom of women that said they were unclean for that time period. God had established laws with his people though only certain ones were contained in the written law. The people already knew that they were to observe them. Here is Laban going after Jacob when certain images were missing.

Gen 31:35 And she said to her father, Let it not displease my lord that I cannot rise up before thee; for the custom of women is upon me. And he searched, but found not the images.

A good friend of mine, an Apostolic Assembly friend of mine who is an engineer no less, said not wearing the veil in the church is a sin.

Just be careful quoting the law of God with Moses, you are going to have to go back to animal sacrifices, not eating Catfish and all that other OT Jazz. Remember what Paul said, offend in one portion of the law and you will be judged by the rest of it....all for the sake of wearing a veil which has its roots in Catholcism in the Western Hemisphere?

No thank you.

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

A good friend of mine, an Apostolic Assembly friend of mine who is an engineer no less, said not wearing the veil in the church is a sin.

Just be careful quoting the law of God with Moses, you are going to have to go back to animal sacrifices, not eating Catfish and all that other OT Jazz. Remember what Paul said, offend in one portion of the law and you will be judged by the rest of it....all for the sake of wearing a veil which has its roots in Catholcism in the Western Hemisphere?

No thank you.

This is the one tiny detail that is conveniently overlooked by those who chose to follow some of the law.

[Rico]

Well, now. It's been a good while since anyone has come along defending the "veil" belief. I suppose if y'all want to believe it that way you are more than within your rights to do so. I will say this much for you: I think y'all do a better job of defending your "veil" belief than the "uncut hair" crowd does with theirs.

[Joelel]

A woman can prophecy(Foretell,).Acts2:[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy

A woman can prophecy(fortell) in assemblies as long as she stays under the athority of the men).1 Cor.14:[29] Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[30] If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.[31] For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.[32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

A woman must be veiled with a veil when praying or prophesying as a sign she is under athority of the men.A woman has two veils,one her long hair and the other a veil when she prays and prophesieth.1 Cor.11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head (athority)of every man is Christ; and the head (athority)of the woman is the man; and the head (athority)of Christ is God.


[4] Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered(veiled), dishonoureth his head(athority,Christ).[5] But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered(unveiled) dishonoureth her head(athority,man): for that is even all one as if she were shaven.[6] For if the woman be not covered(veiled), let her also be shorn(cut her hair): but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn(cut her hair) or shaven, let her be covered(veiled).


[7] For a man indeed ought not to cover (veil)his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.[8] For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.[9] Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.[10] For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.[11] Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.


[12] For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of god.[13] Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered(unveiled)?[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?[15] But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering(veiling).[16] But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

A woman can't talk and ask questions in the assemblies.1 Cor.14:[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak (Ask questions,talk)in the church(assemblies).[36] What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord

[Pastor DTSalaz]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

This is the one tiny detail that is conveniently overlooked by those who chose to follow some of the law.

Those things that are the ceremonial law are done away with in Christ as he fulfilled them. The Moral Law which has to do with the character of God are never done away with. We cannot be saved by trying to keep the law apart accepting Jesus as our atonement for once we have sinned in one point we can never be saved by our own righteousness.

Does this mean that we can steal, kill, hate, have strife, envy, commit adultery and fornication being that we are no longer under the law. Never! Even if the law cannot save us but point us to the fact that we are sinners and in need of a savior, it still tells us what is pleasing to God. We don't do these things trying to be saved by them but do them to please and not offend the one we say we love.

When we are first saved we do not know all that we are supposed to do to please God. This is learned over time as we read His Word and draw closer to Him. As Truth is revealed we are then responsible to do what is right in the eyes of God. The Holy Spirit will lead us and guide us into all truth.

I will never put an additional burden upon you. I will point to truth as it is found in the Word of God and if it is truth then you and I should be willing to leave behind error. The conviction falls on the one who receives truth and rejects it. It does not matter if it is from a conservative, moderate or a liberal perspective if it is in the Word of God I should be willing to do it.

The problem lies in our interpretation sometimes. We see the potential for evil in something and make a doctrine of man into a commandment of God. Our job is to make sure that what we base our regulations or organizational doctrines are truly able to be substantiated in the Word of God. We at times do make traditions into commandments of God.

Now is the veil a ceremonial law or a moral law / imperative. You decide?

Blessings