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  #21  
Old 12-30-2008, 03:29 PM
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Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
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Location: Brazil, SA
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Re: Holiness And Legalism.

God is set apart from the evil of this world we must be also. When we think of God words like just, kind, forgiving, longsuffering and on and on come to our minds...Now the BIG question is what comes to people´s minds when our name is mentioned?
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  #22  
Old 12-30-2008, 03:58 PM
NotforSale NotforSale is offline
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Re: Holiness And Legalism.

True holiness starts in the heart and mainfests itself outwardly in time; repeat, in time.

Understanding this process is vital to the proper health of any Christian. We've made the grave error of "telling" people to change, when they really haven't changed within. This will lead people to a disasterous experience and a very poor view of the God who loves us.

Jesus said, clean the inside first.

We (American Apostolics) have sterotyped the Christian model by our big HAMMER of "Thou Shalt the American Way", and this is backfiring because people have access to much information on this subject. Cultures, time periods, races of peoples, these all reflect on the holiness issue of how it applies to the people of a region or area of the church involved. Big example would be: We don't dress or live like they did during the days of the early church.

To be honest, it disturbs me when preachers go "hog wild" on every do and don't you can imagine regarding outward holiness, while the Flock in thier charge is full of envy, unforgiveness, hatred towards the brethren, pride, and many other internal stigmas that cause the outward dress or practice to only mask the hypocrite.

My message on Sunday was called, "Living in Peace". Part of my text was from the verse that states: Follow peace with all men and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. What happened to the Peace? Why is the church at war with each other? We fight, bicker, and almost hate one another because the church down the road doesn't see it quite like us.

It seems we have lost something here. Our outward holiness is more of a weapon than a result. We need to revisit our approach to outward separation, otherwise we will be no different than the "Vipers" that Jesus rebuked.

The heart, the attitude, Jesus talked about these as the greatest need of a person seeking wisdom in God's way. Blessed are the; merciful, meek, poor in spirit, pure in heart. God help us to become the good Samaritan, reaching into the fire to help those who are crying from thier error.

The Church is a "Hospital", not a fashion show.

Happy new year!
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  #23  
Old 12-30-2008, 04:09 PM
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Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord View Post
Well said. Liberalism can become legalism if it is required of all. It DOES go both ways.
While I certainly see liberalism having the potential to be very negative - I don't really see how it would become legalism -- just by the very nature of what it means to be liberal. \

Though I do see how pressure from peers to be liberal could have a similar effect.
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  #24  
Old 12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
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marthaolivia marthaolivia is offline
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Join Date: May 2007
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Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
To be honest, it disturbs me when preachers go "hog wild" on every do and don't you can imagine regarding outward holiness, while the Flock in thier charge is full of envy, unforgiveness, hatred towards the brethren, pride, and many other internal stigmas that cause the outward dress or practice to only mask the hypocrite.


I appreciate and love my pastor. I am thankful that he is not like the above mentioned.
I know of some in our church who, outwardly, are the perfect picture of Pentecostal Holiness Look, but I also know how they gossip about the pastor, pastor's wife, belittle the outward show of emotion of others in worship, gripe about paying tithes, etc. I just don't want that kind of holiness.
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  #25  
Old 12-30-2008, 05:19 PM
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Falla39 Falla39 is offline
Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now!


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,358
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by freeatlast View Post
Really Scott? You been on these forums for years. How big is the pot you attempt to stir?

Most folks that have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in bun, usually accompienied by a long face.


Bro. Freeatlast,

Sounds like you are painting with a broad brush. Saying that most folks that
have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long
sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in a bun, usually accompanied by
a long face. Yes there have been extremes and some of those extremes
have been dictated by men. If the woman that meets the standard mention-
ed in your post, had long faces, there was probably a good reason. Quite
possibly caused by an overbearing husband that wasn't following the stand-
ard for husbands taught in the Bible, but set their own.


There are extremes outside the church also. I see them, with their long
sad faces. They tell their sad stories and long for a better way.
Husbands,
wives, children, etc., on drugs, alcoholics, and other vices. Divorce rampant.
We are told to prove all things. We have living proof of what the church has
meant to our family and a BIG family at that. We are SO blessed and
do not take it for granted. We have had loved ones out of the ark of
safety but God has been SO merciful because of those who remained
faithful to HIM. To ALMIGHTY GOD we give the Praise, Honor and glory.


A woman can wear dresses to the floor, sleeves covering their hands, hair
put up in a bun, long face and still have a heart black as sin. The man can
have what they might consider approperiate clothes, and still have a heart
not right with God.

Mankind may judge by the outward appearance, but God still sees that
heart inside every person. There is a spirit of holiness that causes us to
desire NOT to be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the
renewing of our minds. That we might PROVE what is that good and
acceptable and perfect will of GOD!THE SPIRIT of HOLINESS that desires
to please and follow a HOLY GOD. The Spirit of HOLINESS come from a
HOLY GOD!

As a woman I DO NOT think holiness is what I wear, length, or other.
And how do you know they THINK they are holy by those things. I surely
don't. I do think it is important to be modestly attired and I personally do
not cut my hair. Don't make it my business to tell others what to do. Not
my place. We raised our three daughters in the church their grandfather
pastored and the same father that raised me. Dad was a great teacher.
He knew and taught the Word of God. Yes there were some standards
taught and I appreciate them to this day. Our daughters are married with
families. Their hair has never been cut. Their daughters hair has never been
cut. Every man and woman is responsible for the training of their own child-
ren. The Bible says that every man shall bear HIS OWN burden.

The Bible says you will know them by their fruit. We are as trees of right-
eous or trees of unrighteousness. We are what we are. Not what we think
we are, but what we are.
What we are will be manifest through our actions,
our words, whether written or spoken. For from the abundance of the heart,
the mouth speaketh. What's inside will come out. When we are happy, when
we are sad, and when we are angry. What we are will be made manifest.


When we are children, we are taught and when we become adults, what we
do, say, believe and practice, will determine what we believed. Every man
will give account for the deeds done in this body whether it be good or
whether it be evil.

If you want to know what kind of tree you are, look at your fruit. Look at
your offspring that came off your tree. Apples come off of apple trees. Figs
come from a fig bush. You won't find pears coming off of a peach tree or
vice versa.

Many people eat their words they spoke in their earlier days. They will say
IF that were me, or mine, or IF this or that, I would do so and so! Later
time showed they just thought what they would do or say or whatever.

Just a few words and certainly not for offense, Brother!

Blessings,

Falla39
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  #26  
Old 12-30-2008, 05:40 PM
1Corinth2v4 1Corinth2v4 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,867
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by notforsale View Post
the church is a "hospital", not a fashion show.

You leave my Brioni, Kiton, and William Fioravanti suits out of this!
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  #27  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:07 PM
StMark StMark is offline
Pot Stirrer


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,102
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Falla39 View Post
[/B]

Bro. Freeatlast,

Sounds like you are painting with a broad brush. Saying that most folks that
have been indoctrinated by us OP's think of holiness as a long dress with long
sleeves worn by a woman with long hair worn in a bun, usually accompanied by
a long face. Yes there have been extremes and some of those extremes
have been dictated by men. If the woman that meets the standard mention-
ed in your post, had long faces, there was probably a good reason. Quite
possibly caused by an overbearing husband that wasn't following the stand-
ard for husbands taught in the Bible, but set their own.


There are extremes outside the church also. I see them, with their long
sad faces. They tell their sad stories and long for a better way.
Husbands,
wives, children, etc., on drugs, alcoholics, and other vices. Divorce rampant.
We are told to prove all things. We have living proof of what the church has
meant to our family and a BIG family at that. We are SO blessed and
do not take it for granted. We have had loved ones out of the ark of
safety but God has been SO merciful because of those who remained
faithful to HIM. To ALMIGHTY GOD we give the Praise, Honor and glory.


A woman can wear dresses to the floor, sleeves covering their hands, hair
put up in a bun, long face and still have a heart black as sin. The man can
have what they might consider approperiate clothes, and still have a heart
not right with God.

Mankind may judge by the outward appearance, but God still sees that
heart inside every person. There is a spirit of holiness that causes us to
desire NOT to be conformed to this world but to be transformed by the
renewing of our minds. That we might PROVE what is that good and
acceptable and perfect will of GOD!THE SPIRIT of HOLINESS that desires
to please and follow a HOLY GOD. The Spirit of HOLINESS come from a
HOLY GOD!

As a woman I DO NOT think holiness is what I wear, length, or other.
And how do you know they THINK they are holy by those things. I surely
don't. I do think it is important to be modestly attired and I personally do
not cut my hair. Don't make it my business to tell others what to do. Not
my place. We raised our three daughters in the church their grandfather
pastored and the same father that raised me. Dad was a great teacher.
He knew and taught the Word of God. Yes there were some standards
taught and I appreciate them to this day. Our daughters are married with
families. Their hair has never been cut. Their daughters hair has never been
cut. Every man and woman is responsible for the training of their own child-
ren. The Bible says that every man shall bear HIS OWN burden.

The Bible says you will know them by their fruit. We are as trees of right-
eous or trees of unrighteousness. We are what we are. Not what we think
we are, but what we are.
What we are will be manifest through our actions,
our words, whether written or spoken. For from the abundance of the heart,
the mouth speaketh. What's inside will come out. When we are happy, when
we are sad, and when we are angry. What we are will be made manifest.


When we are children, we are taught and when we become adults, what we
do, say, believe and practice, will determine what we believed. Every man
will give account for the deeds done in this body whether it be good or
whether it be evil.

If you want to know what kind of tree you are, look at your fruit. Look at
your offspring that came off your tree. Apples come off of apple trees. Figs
come from a fig bush. You won't find pears coming off of a peach tree or
vice versa.

Many people eat their words they spoke in their earlier days. They will say
IF that were me, or mine, or IF this or that, I would do so and so! Later
time showed they just thought what they would do or say or whatever.

Just a few words and certainly not for offense, Brother!

Blessings,

Falla39


~ ~ THANK YOU FOR THAT POST! ~ ~


If there's anything I've learned from being on AFF, There is arrognace both in the UPC / traditional Oneness and OUTSIDE of it
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  #28  
Old 12-30-2008, 07:45 PM
Sister Alvear's Avatar
Sister Alvear Sister Alvear is offline
Sister Alvear


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Brazil, SA
Posts: 27,042
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look ..."
I have seen pride on both sides...We must pray that our spirits please the Lord...
__________________
Monies to help us may be sent to P.O. Box 797, Jonesville, La 71343.

If it is for one of our direct needs please mark it on the check.
Facebook Janice LaVaun Taylor Alvear
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  #29  
Old 12-30-2008, 08:08 PM
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tv1a tv1a is offline
God's Son


 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 3,743
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Scripture makes clear distinctions. The pharisees walked in legalism. The apostles walked in holiness.

The easiest way to spost a legalist is to let them talk. It's only a matter of moments before they leave the impression thier definition of holiness is the right one.

A legalist believes their brand of holiness is the only way. Any variation is a deviant and must be obliterated...

Legalism is witchcraft, an abomination to God. Holiness pleases God.

Anyone else want to state the obvious.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson View Post
In order to have Biblical Christian faith we must have Holiness,and God's church must be a Holy people distinct in lifestyle from the ungodly.

However we don't need legalism as the merit of favor of God can't be earned.

So how can a Christian determine if they are walking in Holiness and not legalism and can one tell the difference between legalism and Holiness?
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A religious spirit allows people to tolerate hatred and anger under the guise of passion and holiness. Bill Johnson

Legalism has no pity on people. Legalism makes my opinion your burden, makes opinion your boundary, makes my opinion your obligation-Lucado

Some get spiritual because they see the light. Others because they feel the heat.Ray Wylie Hubbard

Definition of legalism- Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. TV
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  #30  
Old 12-30-2008, 08:32 PM
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RevDWW RevDWW is offline
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Location: Louisiana
Posts: 5,529
Re: Holiness And Legalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sister Alvear View Post
"These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: a proud look ..."
I have seen pride on both sides...We must pray that our spirits please the Lord...
Preach!!!!!!!
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