Purgatory

[Deo Gratias]

con't...

A Place of Expiation

We have seen that Purgatory is a place of expiation.

Souls in Purgatory endure a two-fold suffering: they experience a temporary pain of loss, since they are temporarily deprived of the Beatific Vision and they also feel sensible sufferings, or pain of sense. Unlike the damned in Hell where punishments provoke hatred, those in Purgatory find punishment evokes a profound love of God.

According to Saint Thomas and Saint Augustine, the least pain of Purgatory is worse than the greatest of this life. This is due to the intensity of the desire souls have for God, Whose privation is extremely painful, and the magnitude of sensible pain, which, touching the soul directly, is worse than anything felt by the senses.

Suffering Encouraged by Hope

However rigorous the punishments of Purgatory may be, they are soothed by hope.

Saint Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510), a mystic who suffered Purgatory’s torments on earth explained that one suffers simultaneously unspeakable torment and indescribable happiness.

She described the torment as stemming from a continually consuming interior fire, kindled by separation from God, for Whom the soul is aflame with love. This suffering is so intense that it transforms each instant into a martyrdom of pain.

Although surpassing all earthly suffering, it cannot be compared with the anguish of Hell where suffering is a despairing fruit of hatred while the suffering of Purgatory is a hope-filled suffering of love.

Consequently, Saint Catherine said that only in Heaven itself is there greater happiness than that amidst the torments of Purgatory. This is because the soul knows it is saved, in friendship with God, surrounded by holy souls, and thus aflame with love of God.

Saint Catherine explained:

I believe no happiness can be found worthy to be compared with that of a soul in Purgatory except that of the saints in Paradise; and day by day this happiness grows as God flows into these souls, more and more as the hindrance to His entrance is consumed. Sin’s rust is the hindrance, and the fire burns the rust away so that more and more the soul opens itself up to the divine inflowing. A thing which is covered cannot respond to the sun’s rays, not because of any defect in the sun, which is shining all the time, but because the cover is an obstacle; if the cover be burnt away, this thing is open to the sun; more and more as the cover is consumed does it respond to the rays of the sun.

It is in this way that rust, which is sin, covers souls, and in Purgatory is burnt away by fire; the more it is consumed, the more do the souls respond to God, the true sun. As the rust lessens and the soul is opened up to the divine ray, happiness grows; until the time be accomplished the one wanes and the other waxes. Pain however does not lessen but only the time for which pain is endured. As for will: never can the souls say these pains are pains, so contented are they with God’s ordaining with which, in pure charity, their will is united.

The Duration of Purgatory

The amount of time spent in Purgatory is very difficult to express in human terms. In accounts of private visions, we read of souls condemned for a number of years or even until the end of the world. Indeed, Our Lady revealed to the seers of Fatima that a girl who died shortly before the apparitions would remain there until the end of time.

Theologians explain that time in Purgatory can be gauged in two ways. The first is positive and corresponds to time as we measure it on earth; the other is fictitious or imaginary since it corresponds to the amount of time that souls judge they suffered which is distorted since this very suffering causes them to lose track of time.

Thus, we see souls, who after mere hours in Purgatory complain about years or even centuries of suffering.

Saint Anthony tells the story of a sick person who suffered so atrociously that he considered it beyond human nature and thus continually prayed for death. One day, an angel appeared to him and said, “God sent me here to offer you a choice. You can spend one year of suffering on earth, or one day in Purgatory.” Choosing the latter, he died and went to Purgatory.

When the angel went to console him, he was greeted with this groan of pain, “Deceitful angel! At least twenty years ago, you said that I would spend only one day in Purgatory . . . My God, how I suffer!”

To this the Angel responded, “Poor deluded soul, your body is not even buried yet.”

Devotion to the Souls in Purgatory

Devotion to souls in Purgatory originated in the early Church, based on the dogma of the Communion of Saints. Although these souls cannot gain merit, they are in friendship with God, Who willingly applies merits offered for them.

Therefore it is an act of charity to pray, offer Masses, sacrifices and indulgences for them.

This devotion was ingrained so deeply in the faithful that even Luther dared not abolish it. He understood the importance of proceeding towards his insidious goals with caution.

Supported by Scripture and Tradition, the Church defined the dogma of the Communion of Saints, which encourages devotion to the holy souls. This devotion not only encourages the practice of charity but also enlivens faith and consoles those who have lost loved ones.

The Powerful Intercession of the Souls in Purgatory

Besides being a spiritual work of mercy and a powerful reminder of the afterlife, devotion to souls in Purgatory also affords us invaluable intercession as demonstrated by Church Tradition.

According to the dogma of the Communion of Saints, they form a part of the Church (called the Church Suffering) and are therefore united to us, and can intercede for us.

Examples of this abound in Church History and many readers have undoubtedly experienced such intercession. We will relate a few examples below.

The Countess of Stratford, an English protestant, having doubts about the existence of Purgatory, consulted the Bishop of Amiens, France. Hearing her objection, he answered, “Tell the Bishop of London (an Anglican) that I will leave the Faith and become an Anglican if he can prove that Saint Augustine never celebrated Mass or prayed for the dead, especially his mother.”

Following his advice, the Countess wrote the Anglican bishop of London. Seeing that he did not respond, she converted.

At a certain point during her reform of the Carmelites, Saint Teresa was in need of a convent. A noble named Bernadine of Toledo responded to her need and donated a place for the convent. He died shortly afterwards. Saint Theresa received the revelation that he would remain in Purgatory until the first Mass was celebrated in the convent he had donated. She thus hastened to establish its foundation. During communion of this first Mass, she saw his soul radiant with splendor at the side of the priest. Thanks to that Mass which had been said for him, he was freed from Purgatory.

Whenever Saint Catherine of Bologna’s prayers seemed unanswered, she would call upon the intercession of the souls in Purgatory. She affirmed that these prayers were always answered.

A Moving Example

The cases of intercession of the souls in Purgatory are so numerous that several books would not be enough to relate them all.

The following one, which is among the best known and most moving, happened in Paris in 1817.

A domestic servant, who had the pious habit of having a Mass said every month for the souls in Purgatory, became ill and having to be hospitalized, lost her job.

Upon leaving the hospital, she went to a church to pray, where she remembered that she had failed to have Mass said for the poor souls that month. However due to her unemployment, she could not afford a Mass offering since it would leave her penniless. After hesitating, she gave the offering.

Leaving the church, she met a young man who seemed to be a noble. He unexpectedly asked her if she needed employment and gave her the address of a house, which needed a maid.

When she arrived at the house, the owner, who had just dismissed her maid, wondered who could have known that she needed help. While describing the young man at the Church, the servant saw a painting of him on the wall.

Hearing this, the owner exclaimed, “That is my son, who died two months ago!”

Then both realized that God wanted to reward the maid’s charity and reveal the power of a suffering soul’s intercession.

[mfblume]

Deo Gratias, you will believe in it simply because the RCC teaches it. The examples you gave of people experiencing things to validate purgatory are nothing if it is not in the Word. And it is not in the Word. Try the spirits... You obviously have your mind made up, and your RCC teaching of Doctrine and Magisterium won't let you believe otherwise, anyway.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Deo Gratias

I'm not going to argue with anyone. .

Originally Posted by Deo Gratias

http://www.catholicculture.org/cultu...fm?recnum=3302

How To Argue the Existence of Purgatory

In other word, Im going to pontificate my view to you but ignore your counter arguments???

[Praxeas]

Since there is no bible for this doctrine they must appeal to other sources

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Since there is no bible for this doctrine they must appeal to other sources

Sola scriptura is not their way, I guess.

[Deo Gratias]

"Now there is no need to pray for the dead who are in Heaven, for they are in no need; nor again for those who are in Hell, because they cannot be loosed from sins. Therefore after this life, there are some not yet loosed from sins, who can be loosed therefrom; and the like have charity, without which sins cannot be loosed, for 'charity covereth all sins' [Prov. 10:12]. Hence they will not be consigned to everlasting death, since 'he that liveth and believeth in Me, shall not die for ever' [Jn. 11:26]: nor will they obtain glory without being cleansed, because nothing unclean shall obtain it, as stated in the last chapter of the Apocalypse (verse 14). Therefore some kind of cleansing remains after this life. Further, Gregory of Nyssa [De iis qui in fide dormiunt] says: 'If one who loves and believes in Christ,' has failed to wash away his sins in this life, 'he is set free after death by the fire of Purgatory.' Therefore there remains some kind of cleansing after this life. From the conclusions we have drawn above it is sufficiently clear that there is a Purgatory after this life. For if the debt of punishment is not paid in full after the stain of sin has been washed away by contrition, nor again are venial sins always removed when mortal sins are remitted, and if justice demands that sin be set in order by due punishment, it follows that one who after contrition for his fault and after being absolved, dies before making due satisfaction, is punished after this life. Wherefore those who deny Purgatory speak against the justice of God: for which reason such a statement is erroneous and contrary to faith. Hence Gregory of Nyssa, after the words quoted above, adds: 'This we preach, holding to the teaching of truth, and this is our belief; this the universal Church holds, by praying for the dead that they may be loosed from sins.' This cannot be understood except as referring to Purgatory: and whosoever resists the authority of the Church, incurs the note of heresy." - St. Thomas Aquinas ("Summa Theologica" 13th century A.D.)

[Deo Gratias]

WHAT THE EARLY CHURCH BELIEVED

"Then we make mention also of those who have already fallen asleep: first, the patriarchs, prophets, apostles, and martyrs, that through their prayers and supplications God would receive our petition; next, we make mention also of the holy fathers and bishops who have already fallen asleep, and, to put it simply, of all among us who have already fallen asleep, for we believe that it will be of very great benefit to the souls of those for whom the petition is carried up, while this holy and most solemn sacrifice is laid out." St. Cyril of Jerusalem ("Catechetical Lectures" c. 350 A.D.)

"Useful too is the prayer fashioned on their behalf, even if it does not force back the whole of guilty charges laid to them. And it is useful also, because in this world we often stumble either voluntarily or involuntarily, and thus it is a reminder to do better." St. Epiphanius of Salamis ("Medicine Chest Against All Heresies" c. 375 A.D.)

"Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice (Job 1:5), why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them." St. John Chrysostom ("Homilies on 1 Corinthians" c. 392 A.D.)

"Weep for those who die in their wealth and who with all their wealth prepared no consolation for their own souls, who had the power to wash away their sins and did not will to do it. Let us weep for them, let us assist them to the extant of our ability, let us think of some assistance for them, small as it may be, yet let us somehow assist them. But how, and in what way? By praying for them and by entreating others to pray for them, by constantly giving alms to the poor on their behalf. Not in vain was it decreed by the apostles that in the awesome mysteries remembrance should be made of the departed. They knew that here there was much gain for them, much benefit. when the entire people stands with hands uplifted, a priestly assembly, and that awesome sacrificial Victim is laid out, how, when we are calling upon God, should we not succeed in their defense? But this is done for those who have departed in the faith, while even the catechumens are not reckoned as worthy of this consolation, but are deprived of every means of assistance except one. And what is that? We may give alms to the poor on their behalf." St. John Chrysostom ("Homilies on Philippians" c. 402 A.D.)

"There is an ecclesiastical discipline, as the faithful know, when the names of the martyrs are read aloud in that place at the altar of God, where prayer is not offered for them. Prayer, however, is offered for other dead who are remembered. It is wrong to pray for a martyr, to whose prayers we ought ourselves be commended. But by the prayers of the Holy Church, and by the salvific sacrifice, and by the alms which are given for their spirits, there is no doubt that the dead are aided, that the Lord might deal more mercifully with them than their sins would deserve. The whole Church observes this practice which was handed down by the Fathers: that it prays for those who have died in the communion of the Body and Blood of Christ, when they are commemorated in their own place in the sacrifice itself; and the sacrifice is offered also in memory of them, on their behalf. If, then, works of mercy are celebrated for the sake of those who are being remembered, who would hesitate to recommend them, on whose behalf prayers to God are not offered in vain? It is not at all to be doubted that such prayers are of profit to the dead; but for such of them as lived before their death in a way that makes it possible for these things to be useful to them after death." St. Augustine of Hippo ("Sermons" c. 411 A.D.)

"Temporal punishments are suffered by some in this life only, by some after death, by some both here and hereafter, but all of them before that last and strictest judgment. But not all who suffer temporal punishments after death will come to eternal punishments, which are to follow after that judgment." St. Augustine of Hippo ("The City of God" c. 419 A.D.)

"That there should be some fire even after this life is not incredible, and it can be inquired into and either be discovered or left hidden whether some of the faithful may be saved, some more slowly and some more quickly in the greater or lesser degree in which they loved the good things that perish, through a certain purgatorial fire." St. Augustine of Hippo ("Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Charity" c. 421 A.D.)

[Deo Gratias]

O gentle Heart of Jesus, ever present in the Blessed Sacrament, ever consumed with burning love for the poor captive souls in Purgatory, have mercy on them. Be not severe in Your judgments, but let some drops of Your Precious Blood fall upon the devouring flames. And, Merciful Savior, send Your angels to conduct them to a place of refreshment, light and peace. Amen.

[TJJJ]

Deo

You are a diehard catholic who has infilitrated in here to try to spread your filth.

You saw the word "apostolic" and thought that it was dealing with catholics, not realizing that we believe the REAL apostles doctrine, found in Acts 2:38.

Go learn what that meaneth.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Deo Gratias

O gentle Heart of Jesus, ever present in the Blessed Sacrament, ever consumed with burning love for the poor captive souls in Purgatory, have mercy on them. Be not severe in Your judgments, but let some drops of Your Precious Blood fall upon the devouring flames. And, Merciful Savior, send Your angels to conduct them to a place of refreshment, light and peace. Amen.

Nothing but the blood of Jesus can purge away sins. Not fire, not purgatory, not anything. His blood ALONE without the aid of fire.