The "Claim to the Name"

[MrsMcD]

Do any of your churches sing "How Great is Our God?"

And age to age He stands
and time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
the Lion and the Lamb,
the Lion and the Lamb

I'm curious because our oneness church and Baptist church sing it here.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Really? I don't understand statements like this. Your insinuation here is that they do not value the name of Jesus which is exactly the point I'm making. I don't know how you could say that or insinuate it. So you really believe that what was verbalized as they splashed through baptismal waters is indicative they don't value the name of Jesus?

Bro, this is the exact kind of reasoning that divides the World, creating Wars and Religious hatred.

I used to be so mean spirited to people who believed in the Trinity. I was trained by my elders, "We've got the TRUTH!" They were in false doctrine. They were lost. They needed revelation. If they aren't Baptized in Jesus name, they won't make it! They, they, they.

How can we be so ignorant, thinking we've got God figured out. Every War on Planet Earth is caused by this mental configuring about who God is, and who's side He's on.

We can't accept the fact that our little brains see through a glass darkly, and that good reasoning about life and God comes through life's experiences. Religion only complicates this process, and History proves this. Religion is "God in Jail". I think Jesus speaking in Parables was to let us know, learn from you surroundings, not Religions of this World that bind God to a Letter.

It just blows me away that we speak of things that we've never seen with such authority, as though we've seen them.

[MrsMcD]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Bro, this is the exact kind of reasoning that divides the World, creating Wars and Religious hatred.

I used to be so mean spirited to people who believed in the Trinity. I was trained by my elders, "We've got the TRUTH!" They were in false doctrine. They were lost. They needed revelation. If they aren't Baptized in Jesus name, they won't make it! They, they, they.

How can we be so ignorant, thinking we've got God figured out. Every War on Planet Earth is caused by this mental configuring about who God is, and who's side He's on.

We can't accept the fact that our little brains see through a glass darkly, and that good reasoning about life and God comes through life's experiences. Religion only complicates this process, and History proves this. Religion is "God in Jail". I think Jesus speaking in Parables was to let us know, learn from you surroundings, not Religions of this World that bind God to a Letter.

It just blows me away that we speak of things that we've never seen with such authority, as though we've seen them.

Kudos to you for being willing to change your thinking. Great post!

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by NotforSale

Bro, this is the exact kind of reasoning that divides the World, creating Wars and Religious hatred.

I used to be so mean spirited to people who believed in the Trinity. I was trained by my elders, "We've got the TRUTH!" They were in false doctrine. They were lost. They needed revelation. If they aren't Baptized in Jesus name, they won't make it! They, they, they.

We can't accept the fact that our little brains see through a glass darkly, and that good reasoning about life and God comes through life's experiences. Religion only complicates this process, and History proves this. Religion is "God in Jail". I think Jesus speaking in Parables was to let us know, learn from you surroundings, not Religions of this World that bind God to a Letter.

It just blows me away that we speak of things that we've never seen with such authority, as though we've seen them.

EVERY WAR has a religious undertone? I don't think so. Fighting, according to James, whether on a small scale or a large scale is caused by ungodly desires. They may disguise it in the name of God but in truth it is a lust for power and material wealth.

From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war James 4:1-2

What is your definition of "religion"? There is such a thing as pure religion.

[Falla39]

Originally Posted by notofworks

So do you see those who have not followed the co-called "apostolic message" but are following Christ through more traditional theology, as saved, regenerated, born again, heaven-ready?

Not my place to judge.
1Cor. 4:5

5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by notofworks

I don't want to destroy another thread so I'll start one here.

Two songs, "His Name is Wonderful", and "Jesus, There's Something About That Name", have long been held as "Oneness" national anthems of sorts. But it's interesting to note that both songs were written by strong trinitarians, Audrey Mieir and Bill Gaither.

Here's why I bring it up...I was raised in and spent some of my adulthood in "Oneness Pentecostalism". The feeling I had then was, we had a greater understanding and appreciation of the "Name of Jesus." And certainly now that I've been more associated with the so-called "Christian mainstream" for close to 20 years which definitely leans toward trinitarianism, the view I have of Oneness Pentecostals is that they certainly seem to have a bit of a monopoly of "The Name" almost to the point of perceived "Spiritual Arrogance" about it.

Yet, it has been trinitarians who have penned the greatest lyrics concerning the value of "The Name."

So my question is this...Do "Oneness" people use "The Name" any differently or in any superior fashion than "Trinitarian" people?

I think our Trinitarian friends simply see God through the stained glass windows of religious tradition. I think that both Trinitarians and Oneness believers love and reverence the name of Jesus to their utmost.

As for Trinitarian songs... we also prooftext against them using Bibles translated by preeminent Trinitarian scholars. Please note... it was a Trinitarian who perfected the "altar call" as we know it.

We Apostolics can be so arrogant. May God have mercy on us.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Really? I don't understand statements like this. Your insinuation here is that they do not value the name of Jesus which is exactly the point I'm making.

Let me make it very easy for you so you will not think I'm insinuating anything. Jesus Christ is the one who died for us. We are to be His disciples. Therefore we should or maybe I should say MUST be baptized in his name. We are buried together will Him in baptism. So, do you not want to be His disciple? Do you not want to be buried with Him? Then by all means, don't take on his name when you are baptized.

I don't know how you could say that or insinuate it. So you really believe that what was verbalized as they splashed through baptismal waters is indicative they don't value the name of Jesus?

Your phrasing, "Splashing through baptismal waters" insinuates that baptism is nothing and means nothing to you. And God forbid that anyone should call on the name of Jesus Christ when a new believer decides to obey the command of the Lord and be buried with Him and receive His spiritual circumcision.

I can match your incredulousness with even greater incredulousness! Baptism is part and parcel of becoming Christ's disciple. Invoking the name of the One who died for them, calling on Christ at baptism is essential.

It may simply mean that Oneness Pentecostals value the name more than others since they are willing to call on the name of Christ when they are baptized and not that others don't value the name of Jesus. So some value the name of Christ but are not will to be baptized in His name. Others value the name of Christ MORE because they are willing to be baptized in his name and become his disciples.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Falla39

Not my place to judge.
1Cor. 4:5

5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

That's the expected cop-out. So, let me approach this from a different angle. Do you believe that adherence to the "Oneness message" is the only way to salvation, that adherence to salvation the Acts 2:38 way is the only way to heaven?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by MrsMcD

Do any of your churches sing "How Great is Our God?"

And age to age He stands
and time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
the Lion and the Lamb,
the Lion and the Lamb

I'm curious because our oneness church and Baptist church sing it here.

Good point. And the song was originated by a clearly trinitarian group of people, a gathering called "Passion."

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by notofworks

The highlighted statements are exactly what I'm talking about! Yes, it certainly is unfortunate that "some with this understanding" hold it in the way you just said it.

So you're saying that a trinitarian "can't get a handle on what God did"??? Are you serious???

In fairness, NOW, they (Trinitarians) would say as much, or far worse, about Oneness brothers.