Timmy's Religion

[Esther]

Originally Posted by notofworks

Well, since you asked me to answer as well,....I'll answer in red with two ••'s.





••DedicatedMind, before you want to throw me off the forum, just remember that every time one of the right-wingers on the forum starts the Obama and Pelosi bashing, I'm the first one to come to their defense! You gotta like me for that!!

Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
••As we know it? As being an unintelligible utterance that is mostly memorized repetitions? Probably not. Do I believe things could be said in one language that people could understand that didn't speak that language? Yes. I'm aware of instances like that. Do I believe in a "prayer language" or an "Utterance of exuberant worship"? I'm honestly not sure. Well, I'm sure it's not for me, but for others? I don't know. I lean toward, "No" because I don't see the benefit nor the productivity but I'm greatly aware of how much damage it can do. In our church, it's up to the individual, but it's not something that's practiced openly in our services. We have many every week that are "Unbelievers and/or uninformed" so to do so in their presence would be a violation of scripture.

I have to say I have NEVER heard of anyone memorizing tongues. This has to be a first I have ever heard anyone say this. I also, must say IMO this is a bunch of nonesense. JMO

You can't defend the Bible but you can defend two ungodly politicans?

[Esther]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

See MF as your Kidney description goes a kidney can heal itself depends on the severity and other peoples kidneys have so not taking nothing away from God but..it is possible for the kidney to heal..And as far as the lump on the side goes...again not taking anything away from God but I really thing it was operable I mean come on they do brain surgery so why would a lump on someones side not be able to be removed...And if it just disappearded that great..again it has alot ot do with what kind of lump it was..or even what it was...and was it on the side of a leg or upper body...then again not taking anything away from God but you cannot rule out other possibilities...

seems to me that is exactly what you are trying to do.

[deadeye]

NOW is not in anyway shape or form an Apostolic....and does not belong on an Apostolic Forum.....and if this were truly an Apostolic Forum that would be enforced ....however this forum is beset by agnostics, at least one Muslim and a host of folks that have long ago fallen away....and dont even have the decency to admit it....and is hardly an Apostolic Forum.

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Esther

I have to say I have NEVER heard of anyone memorizing tongues. This has to be a first I have ever heard anyone say this. I also, must say IMO this is a bunch of nonesense. JMO

You can't defend the Bible but you can defend two ungodly politicans?

Well, it's very easy to extrapolate isolated statements and make them sound like what you want, which is what you did here. I absolutely defend the bible but I'm also honest about it and the research that's documented and available. I don't pretend to be an expert in the field, but I can read.

And of course, you, like so many others here, get messed up about my liberal politician defense. Listen, my dear, the reason I defend them is because the BIBLE, that book you think I don't defend, DEMANDS that we pray for them. I find it very hard to speak horribly about someone I'm praying for.

And they're ungodly? Would you care to name me a "Godly" republican president we've had in the 20th or 21st century?

Finally.....you've never heard of "memorized tongues"? Not sure what to even say about that one. So you're telling me that you've never heard a person "speak in tongues" and it sounded exactly the same every time, even when they gave a "message in tongues"? So when you heard a "message in tongues" that sounded exactly like everything else they said "in tongues" that didn't make any alarm bells go off?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by deadeye

NOW is not in anyway shape or form an Apostolic....and does not belong on an Apostolic Forum.....and if this were truly an Apostolic Forum that would be enforced ....however this forum is beset by agnostics, at least one Muslim and a host of folks that have long ago fallen away....and dont even have the decency to admit it....and is hardly an Apostolic Forum.

I knew this would happen if I answered. I'll tell you what, deadeye, let's you and I have a "feeding the hungry", or "comfort the hurting", or "showing mercy to the fallen", or "loving the broken", "or visiting the prisoner", contest and see who wins!

When we're finished, we'll read Matthew 25 and see who's ready for judgment!

I love you, Deadeye.

[Sam]

NOW said:
Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
••As we know it? As being an unintelligible utterance that is mostly memorized repetitions? Probably not. ...

Esther replied:
I have to say I have NEVER heard of anyone memorizing tongues. This has to be a first I have ever heard anyone say this. I also, must say IMO this is a bunch of nonesense. JMO


My comment: I have heard people pray in English, then pray a few words in "tongues" or in "their prayer language." The words in English were the same as I'd heard them say before and the words in tongues were the same as I'd heard them say before. Were the words in English and the words in tongues "memorized"? or did they just happen to be the same prayer they had prayed before?

Also, some preachers have a few words or a phrase they say "in tongues" every so often interspersed in their sermons, and if you hear them the following week or the following week, they still repeat the same words or phrase in tongues. Is that memorized?

[notofworks]

Originally Posted by Sam

NOW said:
Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
••As we know it? As being an unintelligible utterance that is mostly memorized repetitions? Probably not. ...

Esther replied:
I have to say I have NEVER heard of anyone memorizing tongues. This has to be a first I have ever heard anyone say this. I also, must say IMO this is a bunch of nonesense. JMO


My comment: I have heard people pray in English, then pray a few words in "tongues" or in "their prayer language." The words in English were the same as I'd heard them say before and the words in tongues were the same as I'd heard them say before. Were the words in English and the words in tongues "memorized"? or did they just happen to be the same prayer they had prayed before?

Yes, this is true, I've heard many people "praise" in english and it's the same thing over and over every time. I believe Jesus called that a "vain repetition." But nonetheless, my point would be that they say other things in English, but never anything else in tongues. Just the same thing every time.

I college classmate of mine would a certain teacher's "tongues" and it sounded identical (I hated it when he did that, by the way. I would NEVER be that disrespectful).

If someone prays the identical thing every time, in their native language, I would think they have a prayer problem. I've heard people, in "prayer time", for an hour, say, "Have your way Lord, have your way. Bless your name, Lord, bless your name. Glory to God, glory to God...." and so on. Is that really prayer? I find nothing in the bible like that.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by deadeye

NOW is not in anyway shape or form an Apostolic....and does not belong on an Apostolic Forum.....

There is disagreement on this forum among us as to what the term "Apostolic" means. Seems like many of us have our opinion of what "Apostolic" means and anyone who doesn't agree with us isn't a REAL Apostolic.

My personal opinion of what "Apostolic" means is to believe the way that the men and women of the first century who were designated as apostles believed and practiced. So, if our beliefs are based on our understanding of what was believed, taught, and practiced by the first century Christians, then we are Apostolic.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

I see I made the mix..lol I look at it like this I pay real close attention when I go to church and see if whats going on around me lines up with the bible....most of the time it does not...tongues,baptism,healings...etc,etc,etc...I mean come on I can understand having faith and all...But don't come to church and say I got my healing of cancer...then 6 months down the line the cancer comes back and you die from it...I think sometimes we have alittle to much faith and it comes around to bite us....I don't think the world was created with a bigbang.....I just think people have to much faith sometimes and it fails them....I am not saying there is not a God or Jesus his son. I mean we have proof of cities that exsisted in the bible days and these cities are in the bible...I am just of the opinion that God is not messing around with us anymore..I mean think about it...why would someone have so much faith that they state God healed them when he really did not...And we can go to the Pentecostal Experience thing that happened on that day...but then again thats one of those things that is happening in the church unlike it did in the bible..Come on think about it we have the bible to learn from right...Why fabricate new ways to "Get God to move" so to speak...Alot of times in the book things were done not for us to copy..It had it's reasons for happening right then and there and was not intened for repeating.....

Originally Posted by mfblume

No disrespect towards you intended, but I have seen genuine miracles, and any time I saw them were instances after which I had to get as far away from this reasoning you portray as I can.

A lady in our church was requiring kidney surgery, and she was healed. She went to the doctor and was told her kidney is spontaneously regenerating itself, and kidneys do not HEAL. He could not explain it and she told him it was God. The doctor gave her a high-five.

We prayed for another sister in front of the congregation who had a large lump on her side that the physicians said they could not remove by operation. As we prayed it instantly disappeared.

We're seeing more and more this.

And again, I have to be as far away from your reasoning as I can get in order to see these things. There will always be forgeries and counterfeits of the true, but they do not mean real miracles are not occurring.

My thoughts, anyway.

I am immediately reminded of N. Urshan's message at General Conference one year. He had a number of different people come up and testify as to what God had done in their lives.

One was a brother who had been involved in witchcraft and the occult. He had gone to Urshan's church to deliberately try and "hex" Bro. Urshan and ended up being delivered and saved.

Another was Bro. Urshan's daughter. She testified how that the cancer she was suffering from had "passed right through" her and that she was now miraculously healed.

The very next General Conference (the first one to be held in St. Louis), on the "General Superintendent's night," (just about 1 year later - to the very day) the G.S. wasn't able to be there because he was at the bedside of his daughter who was dying of cancer. The same daughter who had testified just one year earlier. Jesse Williams preached in his stead.

I'm not looking to fault anyone here. I knew Bro. Urshan, his daughter who passed away and her husband. All of them have shown me much kindness and it was with a very heavy heart that I received the news of her passing.

I am happy for everyone who is sick and gets better. However, I am mindful that this person (and myself included!) still have an appointment with death (Hebrews 9:27-28).

I have never witnessed a miracle of healing myself, even though I have had a cardiologist literally throw herself on me in joy over my own "miracle." Claims of the miraculous are exciting to hear, but that miracle only postpones the inevitable by a little bit. The greater miracle is the hope we have at the end.

[Sam]

DM posted a series of questions for Timmy and then said, "I would like to ask these questions of KWS and not of works also."

I would like to volunteer my answers to the same questions.


Question 1: Do you believe in God?
Answer 1: Yes

Question 2: Do you believe the bible is the inspired, infallible word of God?
Answer 2: Yes

Question 3: Do you believe in the oneness of God?
Answer 3: This is not as easy to answer as the first two questions. The "oneness of God" means different things to different people on this forum. We don't even agree among ourselves what "oneness" is. I believe that God is an invisible Spirit who is everywhere at all times. I believe that God visited planet earth in the person of Jesus Christ to die for our sins. I believe that Jesus rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of the Father. I believe that Jesus lives in me as the Holy Spirit. I believe that God dwells in me; Jesus dwells in me; the Holy Spirit dwells in me; and the Spirit of the Lord dwells in me; and that He does that as a single Spirit being who has united Himself with my spirit.

Question 4: Do you believe acts 2:38 is the plan of salvation?
Answer 4: No. I believe Acts 2:38 speaks of three separate experiences: salvation/conversion; water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ; an empowering experience called the Holy Ghost Baptism or the Promise of the Father.

Question 5: Do you believe in speaking in tongues?
Answer 5: Yes

Question 6: Are you a one stepper or three stepper?
Answer 6: In the way I understand the use of the terms "one stepper" and "three stepper" as used on this forum, I would consider myself to be a one stepper.

P.S. I consider myself to be "Apostolic"