Was every Jew responsible for the crucifixion?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Have all sinned-- jew and gentile alike?

[Jermyn Davidson]

Maybe the question should read, "Is every Jew...."

I vote yes.

Of course a strong argument can be made that ULTIMATELY it was GOD that allowed the crucifixion and given HIS OMNIPOTENCE....

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Have all sinned-- jew and gentile alike?

Sure! We all know EVERY PERSON is responsible ore the cross in the sense that our sins required the cross. But to reject Jesus when He came to His own people, and being one of those people who refuse to obey His words, put one in a unique category the rest of the world did not experience. Hence, there was not only hell for anyone who disagrees to follow Jesus as with people today and then, but there was a destruction of Jerusalem for years after the cross to boot their rejection? Why give them hellfire in the afterlife as well as destruction in forty years later?

But the point everyone is missing as they emotionally decry the point I believe Peter made in Acts 2, was that God showed the VERY ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CROSS, the Jews and Romans, the way of grace first! Acts 2 was for Jews who crucified Jesus, and Acts 10 was for Gentiles, namely a ROMAN SOLDIER, who was used by Jerusalem to slay the Lord.

The fact remains, that the same JERUSALEM in which Peter preached Acts 2's message to men of Israel was later razed to the ground, men, women and children included, 4o years later., If Peter did not mean all of them in the city that day, then the wrath should not have come on the entire city 40 years later. Or are we to think the destruction, enslavement and so on of everyone in the city of Jerusalem, women and children included, forty years later had nothing to do with the cross either?

[DividedThigh]

no jew has the right to speak for all jews, the ones that spoke that day to let it be on their heads, spoke for themselves, dt

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

no jew has the right to speak for all jews, the ones that spoke that day to let it be on their heads, spoke for themselves, dt

Too bad the Lord made all Jerusalem suffer forty years later.

The fact is that their words about the blood being on them and their children was mirrored by Christ's own words concerning wrath:

Mat 27:25 KJV Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Luk 23:27-30 KJV And there followed him a great company of people, and of women, which also bewailed and lamented him. (28) But Jesus turning unto them said, Daughters of Jerusalem, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children. (29) For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck. (30) Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to the hills, Cover us.

So the Lord used their same statement and agreed with it.

And the same PEOPLE AND THEIR CHILDREN were also given GRACE:

Act 2:39 KJV For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

ADAM CLARKE:

Mat 27:25
His blood be on us and on our children - If this man be innocent, and we put him to death as a guilty person, may the punishment due to such a crime be visited upon us, and upon our children after us! What a dreadful imprecation! and how literally fulfilled! The notes on chap. 24, will show how they fell victims to their own imprecation, being visited with a series of calamities unexampled in the history of the world. They were visited with the same kind of punishment; for the Romans crucified them in such numbers when Jerusalem was taken, that there was found a deficiency of crosses for the condemned, and of places for the crosses. Their children or descendants have had the same curse entailed upon them, and continue to this day a proof of the innocence of Christ, the truth of his religion, and of the justice of God.

JOHN GILL

Mat 27:25 Then answered all the people,.... They were as unanimous in their imprecations upon themselves, as in desiring the crucifixion of Christ:

and said, his blood be on us, and on our children; not for the cleansing of them from sin, which virtue that blood has, but if there were any stain, blot, or pollution, through the shedding of it, they wished it might be on them and theirs: not for the forgiveness of sins, which that blood was shed for; but on the contrary, if there was any sin and guilt in it, they desired it might be imputed to them: nor for their justification before God, and security from wrath to come, both which are by his blood; but all the reverse of this, that if there were any punishment, and condemnation, and death, due for the shedding of it, they imprecated it all upon themselves, and their posterity: so this phrase is used in Jos_2:19, and in other places, and in the Talmud (s): and it is a notion of the Jews, that the guilt of innocent blood, and the blood of that innocent man's children, lie not only upon the persons immediately concerned, but upon their children to the end of the world: and so the judges used to address the witnesses upon a trial, after this manner (t);

"know ye, that capital causes, are not as pecuniary ones: in pecuniary causes, a man gives his money, and it atones for him; but in capital causes, דמו ודם זרעו תלויין בו, "his blood, and the blood of his seed, hang upon him", to the end of the whole world: for lo! of Cain it is said, "the voice of the blood of thy brother cryeth", &c. his blood, and the blood of his seed.''

And this imprecation of theirs, has been notoriously verified in them; for though this blood was shed for many of them, and Christ prayed for the forgiveness of them, and they had the Gospel, and the doctrine of remission of sins first preached among them, which was made the power of God unto salvation to some of them, even of those who were concerned in the crucifixion of Christ; yet, on the generality of them, his blood was in the sense they wished it; and for the shedding of it, wrath came upon them to the uttermost, in the entire destruction of their nation, city, and temple, and very remarkable it is, that great numbers of them were put to death by crucifixion; and very likely some of those very persons, that were so clamorous for the crucifying of Christ; and if not, at least their children; five hundred of the Jews and more, were sometimes crucified in a day, whilst Titus was besieging the city; till at length there wanted "room for crosses", και σταυροι τοις σωμασι "and crosses for bodies", as Josephus (u) says, who was an eyewitness of it: and to this day, this dreadful wish of the blood of Christ upon them, is to be seen in their miserable, abject, and captive state; and will be, until such time that they look to him whom they have pierced, and mourn.

[Scott Hutchinson]

The house of Israel was held responsible for the crucifixion of JESUS.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

The house of Israel was held responsible for the crucifixion of JESUS.

Which meant every Jew at that time, right, since they were each part of the House of Israel?

[jfrog]

Blume, was every Iraqi responsible for the crimes of Iraq under the leadership of Sadaam Hussein? Was every German responsible for the atrocities of Germany under the leadership of Hitler? Is every American responsible for the wrongs of America? I don't think so, do you?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Blume, was every Iraqi responsible for the crimes of Iraq under the leadership of Sadaam Hussein? Was every German responsible for the atrocities of Germany under the leadership of Hitler? Is every American responsible for the wrongs of America? I don't think so, do you?

You cannot consider those outside Israel, God's bride and covenant people, and see the same viewpoints that God had of corporate Israel in those other nations. Israel was UNIQUE.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You cannot consider those outside Israel, God's bride and covenant people, and see the same viewpoints that God had of corporate Israel in those other nations. Israel was UNIQUE.

Israel was unique. However, it was not unique in the way that every individual of Israel is held responsible for the actions of Israel while every individual of every other country is not held responsible for the actions of their country.

Israel is unique is the poorest argument one could make when confronted with a comparison to other nations. In fact, you even attempting to use the argument that Israel is unique shows just how good my comparisons were and how much sense they made.