We are not baptized with the holy ghost and fire

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Sam

There are different opinions among Christians on this.

1. Some believe a baptism of fire is a second work of the Holy Spirit after regeneration in which the "old nature" is burned out. This is called sanctification. Then, the HGB or Holy Ghost Baptism is a third work following sanctification. You will hear someone testify that they are saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost.

2. Some believe John was preaching and offering two alternatives to the people. Either submit to the Lord and let Him baptize you in/with the Holy Spirit or later He will baptize you in/with fire He will plunge you into the lake of fire).

3. Some believe a baptism in fire is a baptism/soaking/overwhelming with trials --fiery trials-- to purge and purify.

4. Some believe fire is just symbolic of how the Holy Spirit works i.e. fire can purify, heat, give light, protect, etc.

What about those of us who believe that all of the above are in operation and applicable at least some of the time?

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by pelathais

What about those of us who believe that all of the above are in operation and applicable at least some of the time?

There is a good thought.

[Praxeas]

ISBE
Not always with judgement
Fire in the Old Testament is specially associated with the Divine presence, e.g. in the making of the Covenant with Abraham (Gen_15:17), in the burning bush. (Exo_3:2-4), in the pillar of fire (Exo_13:21), on Sinai (Exo_19:18), in the flame on the altar (Jdg_13:20). Yahweh was "the God that answereth by fire" (1Ki_18:24, 1Ki_18:38). In the Law, therefore, sacrifices and offerings (including incense) were to be made by fire (Exo_12:8, Exo_12:9, Exo_12:10; Lev 1). Fire from Yahweh signified the acceptance of certain special and separate sacrifices (Jdg_6:21; 1Ki_18:38; 1Ch_21:26). In Lev_9:24 the sacrificial fire "came forth from before Yahweh." The altar-fire was to be kept continually burning (Lev_6:12, Lev_6:13); offering by "strange fire" (other than the sacred altar-fire) was punished by "fire from before Yahweh" (Lev_10:1, Lev_10:2). Fire came from heaven also at the consecration of Solomon's Temple (2Ch_7:1).

Fire was an emblem (1) of Yahweh in His glory (Dan_7:9); (2) in His holiness (Isa_6:4); (3) in His jealousy for His sole worship (Deu_4:24; Heb_12:29; Psa_79:5; perhaps also Isa_33:14); (4) of His protection of His people (2Ki_6:17; Zec_2:5); (5) of His righteous judgment and purification (Zec_13:9; Mal_3:2, Mal_3:3; 1Co_3:13, 1Co_3:15); (6) of His wrath against sin and punishment of the wicked (Deu_9:3; Psa_18:8; Psa_89:46; Isa_5:24; Isa_30:33, "a Topheth is prepared of old"; Mat_3:10-12; Mat_5:22, the Revised Version (British and American) "the hell of fire," margin "Greek, Gehenna of fire"; see Isa_30:33; Jer_7:31; Mat_13:40, Mat_13:42; Mat_25:41, "eternal fire"; Mar_9:45-49; see Isa_66:24; 2Th_1:7; Heb_10:27; Jud_1:7); (7) of the word of God in its power (Jer_5:14; Jer_23:29); (8) of Divine truth (Psa_39:3; Jer_20:9; Luk_12:49); (9) of that which guides men (Isa_50:10, Isa_50:11); (10) of the Holy Spirit (Act_2:3); (11) of the glorified Christ (Rev_1:14); (12) of kindness in its melting power (Rom_12:20); (13) of trial and suffering (Psa_66:12; Isa_43:2; 1 Pet 17; 1Pe_4:12); (14) of evil (Pro_6:27; Pro_16:27; Isa_9:18; Isa_65:5); lust or desire (Hos_7:6; Sirach 23:16; 1Co_7:9); greed (Pro_30:16); (15) of the tongue in its evil aspects (Jam_3:5, Jam_3:6); (16) of heaven in its purity and glory (Rev_15:2; see also Rev_21:22, Rev_21:23).

[acerrak]

it could mean two things, as one pointed out possible lake of fire.

but me personally i believe its a refiners Fire, us going through getting purged by Gods consumming fire.

old testament shadow, the 3 hebrews boys tossed into the fire, the only thing that was burned off was their ropes that bound them. The fire is some what of the tool that made them free.

the Holy Ghost enters us and begins purging us, with a spiritual fire, to burn up the things that have bound us in life, addictions, depressions, etc

"... in all the land, two parts shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left. And I will put this third into the fire, and Refine them as silver, and test them as gold. They will call on My Name, and I will answer and say, 'They are My people'; and they will say, 'Yahweh is my Elohim!!!'." (Zec 13:9)

But who can endure the day of His coming? And who shall stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire, and like fuller's soap. (Malachi 3:2)

just my thoughts

[Apprehended]

The baptism of the Holy Ghost without the baptism of fire is serious malady of this latter day church. Fire, which is not speaking of anything infernal but rather of heat, fervency or even passion generated by love. Love is the fire. Too many are being baptized with the Holy Ghost without the love of God that dictate a lifestyle of fervency and passion. Too often a convert will arise from the altar of Spirit baptism to return to the world and worldly ways having loved this present world more than the love of God.

"...he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with (fervent, intense passion) fire..."

[UnTraditional]

We need a revival of Holy Ghost fire. We are experiencing this at my home church, with the fire of the Spirit fueling our lives, burning out the chaff in our fields, and harvesting the wheat for the Kingdom. Those who are against the fire are so because of their own desire to stay as they are.

[riverslivnwtr]

Originally Posted by pelathais

In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says that the one Who would come after him (Jesus Christ) would "baptize with the Holy Ghost and fire..." Luke also quotes this statement (Luke 3:16). Later, in Acts 1:5, Luke gives us the words of Jesus Christ just before His ascension into heaven. Here, Jesus is clearly interacting with John's earlier words and calls the baptism of the Holy Ghost "the promise of the Father."

Noticeably, Jesus does NOT say, "... and you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost AND FIRE not many days hence." He just remarks upon the baptism of the Holy Ghost. However, when the Hold Ghost does come to baptize the believers, the Spirit is accompanied with fire.

The whole "issue" seems sort of iffy to me - both sides of it. My impression from the past was that folks like my Church of Christ friend would probably dismiss the "... and with fire..." part from the believer's experience because so many "Pentecostal types" used that saying to "ignite" an uncomfortable level of enthusiasm in their worship and other behaviors. I was probably wrong to associate the idea exclusively with "Church of Christ types" - but that was just my experience as a younger minister.

I hate to sound greedy but I have on a couple of occasions had fire on my head or I should say the sensation of fire..it is the anointing..it felt like a single flame sat on my head as I was praying on a valentines day in 92 alone at my Church.. I was sad because I was alone ..I was in the gymnasium and the lights were turned off as I was circling praying in tongues, I could see no flame but it just felt like I had one siting on my head....

also you'll find that cloven tongues of fire sat on the heads of the original bunch in Acts 2:3..
and I have been feeling that anointing on my head lately..It must have been yesterday it felt like a crown on my head;

[riverslivnwtr]

Originally Posted by kingdomapostle

AGREED

I believe it has a lot to do with the level of the Word of God in you...the first people had a lot of the Word of God in them from the time they could talk all the way through their lives...

Me ??? I had one rhema (quickened) word...John 15:7 and I got rivers of living water and stammering lips...that was cut short because of a false god came up while I was being filled..the Holy Spirit showed me this in January this year...34 years later..that false god is gone and there is nothing here but Jesus.

and I anticipate a massive refilling Tsunami type..I have more than 50 rhemas in me and I also anticipate up to 195 of them..and I expect to leave a massive wake in my path of salvations where ever I go..

this will teach the devil not to ever mess with me again..

[riverslivnwtr]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

If it is not talking about the fire which occured at Pentecost, then why the fire on their heads? The bigger question for me is why does this not occur today? Would it be any more miraculous than speaking in "other tongues"? I think so, and it would actually be irrefutable evidence.

Not so, I don't believe, there were no unbelievers around when the Holy Ghost fell....the irrefutable evidence is and should be Christ in us...

today the level of the Word of God is not as deep in us as it was in them in Acts chapter 2...
the spirit and the Word are one...the level of the Word the amount of the spirit..

[Arphaxad]

When John was speaking there were pharisees in the crowd too, that's why fire for some, spirit for others. In Acts 1:5 it was Jesus and the apostles, no mention of fire.