The Paranoia Of Grace. - Page 3

RandyWayne · #21 10-16-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OP_Carl

This analogy makes no sense. Money is power in a very real sense, and it accumulates. Urging people to be less like the world increases one's power....... how, exactly?

I don't see how standards of dress and standards of conduct can be separated. And when a shepherd's leadership looks from a distance like a cynical power trip, you are both not close enough to observe and not charitable in assumptions.

I want to be led on a path to get as close to God as I can, not to get as close to the devil as I can and "still make it."

Problems with authority are difficult to veneer over, and are older than the hills. However, God expects us to both respect authority and wield it, as appropriate.

If you can't see the similarity, then there isn't much I can say. What does a strong UC pastor have to preach about if you take the subject of holiness standards away? What will a UC pastor do if he has nothing to threaten his flock with? What will a UC pastor do if he can no longer relate stories to the congregation of someone keeling over dead for questioning the "man of god"? "Standards" are the very basis of power to MANY UC preachers, just as the power to tax and spend is to a crooked politician.

Interesting that the latter part of your post talked about problems with authority. Nuff said.

OP_Carl · #22 10-16-2011, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

If you can't see the similarity, then there isn't much I can say. What does a strong UC pastor have to preach about if you take the subject of holiness standards away?

Ummm, the bible?

Quote:

What will a UC pastor do if he has nothing to threaten his flock with? What will a UC pastor do if he can no longer relate stories to the congregation of someone keeling over dead for questioning the "man of god"?

What is the threat? How does this work? The entire congregation would have to have low intelligence and similar temperaments - slim chance. There must be something else that keeps bringing them back....

Quote:

Interesting that the latter part of your post talked about problems with authority. Nuff said.

think so?

Amanah · #23 10-16-2011, 04:50 PM

listen to Bro Epley's sermon referenced at the beginning of this thread to see what his preaching is like.

Cindy · #24 10-16-2011, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

In Christ, there is nothing I can do to make God love me more, and nothing I can do to make him love me less.

"Grace ceases to be grace if God is compelled to bestow it in the presence of human merit. . . . Grace ceases to be grace if God is compelled to withdraw it in the presence of human demerit. . . . [Grace] is treating a person without the slightest reference to desert whatsoever, but solely according to the infinite goodness and sovereign purpose of God." - C. Samuel Storms

"Then he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him. And the LORD said to Satan, 'The LORD rebuke you, O Satan! The LORD who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Is not this a brand plucked from the fire?' Now Joshua was standing before the angel, clothed with filthy garments. And the angel said to those who were standing before him, 'Remove the filthy garments from him.' And to him he said, 'Behold, I have taken your iniquity away from you, and I will clothe you with pure vestments.'" (Zechariah 3:1-4 ESV)

"The righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ [is] for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus." (Romans 3:22-24 ESV)

Tell it!!

RandyWayne · #25 10-16-2011, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cindy

Tell it!!

Mega Dittos!

Cindy · #26 10-16-2011, 05:02 PM

Grace, grace, God's grace. Grace that will pardon and cleanse within. Grace, grace, God's grace. Grace that is greater than all our sins.

Dagwood · #27 10-16-2011, 05:32 PM

It's amazing to see how some define grace: an excuse to live by that which they see fit and acceptable, to live close to the edge with premediated forgiveness (I'll do it anyway, knowing God will forgive me later). Or, living by what God desires us to do but knowing His forgiveness is readily available for those times we fall and plead for it.

Grace is not an excuse to live just any way we please. However, it is an excuse to allow us not to be so hard on ourselves when we're tempted to do, or even fall into, something displeasing to God.

We're inseparable from His love; His grace is sufficient. Who are we to be so hard on someone we see living a certain way, doing, or saying things we immediately determine is ungodly?

God's grace is truly amazing, far more amazing to me, especially recently. Not a day goes by that I don't sit back and think of how I came to God, shattered, in need of Him putting back together what was left...

I'd be paranoid and in trouble if God's grace wasn't as big as it is...

Michael The Disciple · #28 10-16-2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Orthodoxy

In Christ, there is nothing I can do to make God love me more, and nothing I can do to make him love me less.

This is why there is a paranoia about grace. Grace is a wonderful thing. But to define it like this makes me tremble for unsuspecting souls.

Orthodoxy · #29 10-16-2011, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

This is why there is a paranoia about grace. Grace is a wonderful thing. But to define it like this makes me tremble for unsuspecting souls.

Is this statement true or not? Does God's love for us ebb and flow based on our performance?

Paul's message on grace was so radical that it caused some people to ask the question, "Should we just keep on sinning so that grace may increase?" Then, of course, Paul corrected their faulty thinking.

But the fact that people were actually asking this question shows that Paul's stance on grace was pretty radical.

Michael The Disciple · #30 10-16-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodoxy

Is this statement true or not? Does God's love for us ebb and flow based on our performance?

Paul's message on grace was so radical that it caused some people to ask the question, "Should we just keep on sinning so that grace may increase?" Then, of course, Paul corrected their faulty thinking.

But the fact that people were actually asking this question shows that Paul's stance on grace was pretty radical.

Here is the statement in question:

Quote:

In Christ, there is nothing I can do to make God love me more, and nothing I can do to make him love me less.

Is that what Paul meant by grace?

Did Jesus say there was anything we could to to and he would love us?

14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. John 14:21

So Jesus said that if we keep his commandments he will love us. If we keep his commandments he will manifest himself to us.

So that does not say there is nothing we can do to make us love him more than he already does. It says the opposite does it not?