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  #21  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:17 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
The movement was founded on experience and feeling instead of solid Bible exegesis.

The movement has historically given entirely too much authority to pastors, which has led to rampant spiritual abuse.

The movement doesn't have a consistent doctrine concerning justification, nor does it attempt to understand this beautiful Bible cornerstone.

The movement is all about visible measurements instead of inner purity.

The movement exists solely as a counter-Christian enterprise, and does not seriously attempt to evangelize the world.

The movement assumes the world knows the Bible, and rejects it.

The movement eats its own.
Well, let's go ahead and take these one at a time.
1. The movement was founded on experience and feeling instead of solid Bible exegesis.
Without experiencing God, His love, His mercy, and his divine judgment, how can one have a true relationship with God? Yes, we are based on experience, an Acts 2 revival experience, just like the apostles experienced it. What we are experiencing is the Holy Ghost within us, which is God within us, working in our lives.
2. The movement has historically given entirely too much authority to pastors, which has led to rampant spiritual abuse.
While I admit SOME pastors take this authority and abuse it in ways not becoming of a true Christian, at the same time, did not Paul have full authority over the church of Corinth? When they started to misbehave, did he not chasten them? Did not God speak through him to fix the problems which came about? Tell me, how is Paul any different from a modern day pastor, who is doing the work of God?
3. The movement doesn't have a consistent doctrine concerning justification, nor does it attempt to understand this beautiful Bible cornerstone.
Before I attempt to comment on this one, I'd like to hear your thoughts and theories on exactly what justification means.
4. The movement is all about visible measurements instead of inner purity.
Sir, I'd like to ask you to think out the box for a second. Don't group one or two churches you've had a certain experience in with every single Apostolic Pentecostal church on the planet. I invite you to attend a true Spirit filled revival service, and let the feelings of that revival, the spirit of God, the gifts of the spirit, and that wonderful feeling of the Holy Ghost, completely envelop you. Then tell me if you mind a few simple standards that help brothers and sisters stay away from sin bother you so very much. I think once you've had that Apostolic Pentecostal experience, you won't be thinking very much about not wearing a few pieces of jewelry. Also, I challenge you to find a church that doesn't have a judgmental spirit about you. If you care to private message me, I'd love to invite you to my church.
5. The movement is all about visible measurements instead of inner purity.
This I have to disagree with. Until your temple is pure, you cannot begin to accept God fully into yourself. Until you are free from sin, you cannot begin to grow in the spirit. There are some that come to an Apostolic Pentecostal church, that stay for years and still live in sin. There are two types that do this. Those that are honestly trying, but are still bound, and those that live on the fence, love their sin and don't care to come out of it, but think they're ok because they're coming to church. The first type are trying, probably as hard as they know how, and I believe God honors every single effort made. The second type, sadly stay in their situation, and usually die in it. The only thing that can be done for them is prayer and fasting. But I believe the right amount of both can break the yoke of any bondage, no matter how great. We serve an awesome God who specializes in the impossible.
6. The movement exists solely as a counter-Christian enterprise, and does not seriously attempt to evangelize the world.
I ask you here. to look into the cases of evangelists. They move from state to state, sometimes country to country, spreading the Word of the Lord. Oftentimes they leave from where they came with nothing on their backs but the clothes they're wearing. Sometimes with a few dollars gas money to get to the next area they're preaching in. Do they not evangelize the world? I ask you to look into the true saints, who knock door to door, telling people who sometimes know nothing at all about God's grace and mercy, oftentimes desperate people at the end of their ropes. Do they not evangelize the world? And lastly, I ask you to look into the case of missionaries. They drop everything they're doing, leave everything they've worked for financially, give up their entire worldly lives, to do God's work. They go to countries that are impoverished, countries that have nothing, to tell people who really and truely know not of God, and what he is able to do in their lives. Sir, do they not evangelize the world?
7. The movement assumes the world knows the Bible, and rejects it.
You are quite mistaken there. We believe the world knows NOT of the bible. We believe the world knows NOT of God. We believe the world is trying to fill voids in their lives that nothing can fill, short of the glory of God working in their lives. We believe some religions twist and pervert the gospel, to suit their own desires. And we believe that the saddest thing that can happen is to have the Word of God, right there in front of them, and not know what to do with it.
8. The movement eats its own.
Again, you are grouping. Let me give you an example in another sense. Some Catholic priests have been convicted of juvenile rape. Therefore, all Catholic priests are pedophiles. Right? Of course not. One bad church does not make all churches bad. I sincerely hope you give pentecost another chance, and not let one experience of one church, or one or two churches, completely turn you off from the whole movement. You most certainly will be in my prayers tonight.
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  #22  
Old 07-11-2012, 12:20 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

To be completely honest, I think this post was made to see what people have to say about it. I think this was said to be heard, and nothing more. I believe the OP is watching what everyone is saying, and has no plans to respond.
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  #23  
Old 07-11-2012, 03:33 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
The movement was founded on experience and feeling instead of solid Bible exegesis.

The movement has historically given entirely too much authority to pastors, which has led to rampant spiritual abuse.

The movement doesn't have a consistent doctrine concerning justification, nor does it attempt to understand this beautiful Bible cornerstone.

The movement loves standards of holiness more than the spirit of holiness.

The movement is all about visible measurements instead of inner purity.

The movement exists solely as a counter-Christian enterprise, and does not seriously attempt to evangelize the world.

The movement assumes the world knows the Bible, and rejects it.

The movement eats its own.
This bitter, sad attack is against the forum rules, and paints with a broad brush.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2012, 05:00 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

I just don't understand folks that want to come on a forum
and have such negative things to write about.
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  #25  
Old 07-11-2012, 06:49 AM
The Lemon The Lemon is offline
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Reminds me of an old saying..."The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence". Many folks who have experienced hurt tend to be overtly negative...it goes with the territory. Having said that, what amazes me is that some people believe that some of the issues that are discussed on this forum about apostolic churches are only present in those churches / organizations.

Seriously, human beings are involved in all manner of denominations and religious persuasions, and with that comes all the issues etc. etc. At the end of the day, keep your eyes on Christ, not the storm...walk with Him, be responsible for yourself, and your family. Do what you know to do and quit worrying about what everyone else does or does not do.

There is a whole lot more good and right about the Apostolic church then wrong and negative...stop letting the bad eat the good...
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  #26  
Old 07-11-2012, 07:29 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Matt View Post
To be completely honest, I think this post was made to see what people have to say about it. I think this was said to be heard, and nothing more. I believe the OP is watching what everyone is saying, and has no plans to respond.
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  #27  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:07 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Matt View Post
To be completely honest, I think this post was made to see what people have to say about it. I think this was said to be heard, and nothing more. I believe the OP is watching what everyone is saying, and has no plans to respond.
thus is it a phsycological study?
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  #28  
Old 07-11-2012, 08:56 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
The movement was founded on experience and feeling instead of solid Bible exegesis.

The movement has historically given entirely too much authority to pastors, which has led to rampant spiritual abuse.

The movement doesn't have a consistent doctrine concerning justification, nor does it attempt to understand this beautiful Bible cornerstone.

The movement loves standards of holiness more than the spirit of holiness.

The movement is all about visible measurements instead of inner purity.

The movement exists solely as a counter-Christian enterprise, and does not seriously attempt to evangelize the world.

The movement assumes the world knows the Bible, and rejects it.

The movement eats its own.

If you could present these truths in a way that encourages introspection and change then maybe something good will come of it.
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  #29  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:26 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Let me translate.

The UPCI doesnt agree with Charnock ergo the UPCI is all kinds of messed up.

My friend (and you are my friend) the UPCI is in the midst of serious growing pains but I disagree with you.
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  #30  
Old 07-11-2012, 09:30 AM
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Re: The Trouble With Apostolics is...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoovie View Post
Broad brush? Yes, I agree there, even while I can see some truth in the first post.

The primary issue we face is recognizing and acknowledging that we have and fight the same battles as other Christians do too.
I think in addition to this is the consistent message that Apostolics are better than other Christians because Apostolics have the "right" doctrines. It is constantly preached that Apostolics are better and holier and the only ones going to heaven........that is why there is such a shock when Apostolics have and fight the same battles especially battles of morality.
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